Combat - Why?

[Rorry]

Quite the opposite. Combat has grown too close to late MO combat where parry whoring and staying defensive is the best option, where combat is easy and with long reaction times. Where the combat bypass skill through gear and numbers.

This is exactly what MO combat became after years of crying about dying by bad players, just like now in MO2. We went from a fast paced skill based combat (we also had 360 degree blocking and it was better) where you could beat 10 guys in a row in 1 health bar, now you cant 1v3+ against players who know how to parry.

So no its not us veterans with a critical view on things who want MO combat back, its everyone who says combat now is fine, and everyone who brought us to this point with their suggestions.

Atm MO2 is MO combat with a new swing and block direction added for flavour.
Us veterans are shaking our heads now wondering what exactly SV meant by "We have learned from MO". And the numerous times they told us MO2 will be improved yet we are still as limited by tech as MO was even though over 10 years have gone by and tech have sky rocketed since 09-10 and as such MO2 now gets the same treatment as MO did for the same reasons yielding the same useless results.

The problem lies with the fact that players generally cant accept constant humiliating defeats due to not being good enough and have not put enough time in to shine above others.

So why put in 400h training if you can simply whine to the devs and get your way through bastardizing the games combat to suit your needs.

The only thing that had a positive result of the changes put in place to curb the little desync there used to be was ping normalization that ofc was the last change they tried and so all the useless changes made before that came will most probably not be reverted to see the difference now after we have ping normalization which was needed and a good change.

TLDR:
Dumbing down the game does not help anything other than make the game worse when the game and Servers are still bottlenecked by tech like back in 09-10.

It isn't MO1 combat with a new attack direction. In MO1 you had a chance of tricking prediction and actually hitting a European player, without going to extreme lengths, who was paying attention. Maybe that was shit, and for sure not intended, but it was something.

 

[ThaBadMan]

It isn't MO1 combat with a new attack direction. In MO1 you had a chance of tricking prediction and actually hitting a European player, without going to extreme lengths, who was paying attention. Maybe that was shit, and for sure not intended, but it was something.

I think thats more due to the easier blocking in MO2.
In MO I couldnt block someones hit to my sides, I can in MO2. That says to me that blocking arcs in MO2 are wider than MO.
In MO the one offensive trick you had was to hit the enemies back and the best way to do that was to trick people and play on the time it takes the enemies screen to catch up to your movement and so hit their back while they might look the same direction and in MO2 parry it but since at that time in MO he was looking the other direction and the hit went in.
This was less an issue before block arcs was widened in Awakening and blocking or parries got alot easier and Parrywhore Online started, before that you had to aim directly at the impact of the incoming hit to get a perfect block, slightly to the side and it was a blocked hit for alittle less than full dmg. Swing speed was insane fast so blocking normally not used except with shield, back then blocking was only one direction so you had to aim your block to receive the hit right center of your screen.

Which means 1 player could block 1 player infront of him for full dmg in group fights but if you had 5 on you 4 would hit for almost full dmg.
That meant a group of 5 very good fighters could eat through 20-30 average players because TTK was very fast 1v1 but 5v1 was a couple seconds. But since movement was also higher those 5 could outmaneuver instead of blocking hits so blocking was rarely used. Swing and stab arcs was also very small so average players rarely hit a fast moving good player. I kid you not the greatblade arc for SWINGS was dead center of screen, again like blocks slightly to the sides and miss, swing wind up was on the slower end but swing was super fast. Spears which became meta when mercy dagger spears got known since they had no wind up and hit super quick with low dmg.

But yes the whole prediction "abuse" was the reason that late MO had such ofensive capabilities, that and certain weapons like spammy maces/warhammers.

 

[Teknique]

So why put in 400h training if you can simply whine to the devs and get your way through bastardizing the games combat to suit your needs.

This is how I feel when people cry about turn caps, Because every player has 6-8k hours playing various FPS games right xD

 

[ThaBadMan]

This is how I feel when people cry about turn caps, Because every player has 6-8k hours playing various FPS games right xD

View attachment 474

Yeah I cant do my normal turns anymore due to the turn cap. Its too much. I get wanting to limit it so its rare since it looks stupid but thats just me.

I enjoy spins in between for flavour so long its not the only offensive capability but certainly would be nice to have it as a possibility now that the game turned completely parry whore.

 

[Yenii]

My main issue with the combat is if you're fighting someone who is decent with the mechanics, and just as good as you are, the fight drags on and on because both of you can parry every hit with ease. You could do the twirling and all that, but even those aren't hard to defend against. In MO1, as others have said before in this thread, you could deceive your opponent more easily and land hits based on skill and deception. The combat in MO2 is definitely not bad, just needs tweaking to allow for actual skill to have a factor. I personally agree that the turn cap should be removed or at the very least, lowered(or raised?) so you can get quick swings in.

 

[Ministro]

Eldrath said,
"It would be another matter if we could intentionally hit the handle to break a weapon."

Not a bad idea. Another idea would be if you could hit 'em in the hands, they have a chance to drop their weapon (disarm). Nice free hit while they pick up their weapon. Just a thought.

I find it odd that I've been reading this forum all evening, and even with tons of talk about parrying, I haven't seen the word riposte once..... maybe I missed something.

 

[Eldrath]

Eldrath said,
"It would be another matter if we could intentionally hit the handle to break a weapon."

Not a bad idea. Another idea would be if you could hit 'em in the hands, they have a chance to drop their weapon (disarm). Nice free hit while they pick up their weapon. Just a thought.

I find it odd that I've been reading this forum all evening, and even with tons of talk about parrying, I haven't seen the word riposte once..... maybe I missed something.

I think it is referred to as a "counter", "counterattack" or similar.

It would certainly add another layer to combat and crafting poleweapons. Might be complicated to implement I guess.

 

[Ministro]

It would certainly add another layer to combat and crafting poleweapons. Might be complicated to implement I guess.

Probably right. Stays on my wish list though.

 

[Buffallo]

I agree pretty much throughout for the sentiment with the caveat disagreement that the system actually makes it easier in the long run. If we factor in kick there will be a sided weight to players who have even a small portion of extra numbers and will really rely on material related variables because the ease of the system will be aimed at real noobs. I think the four sided attack system will lend itself against the argument for fine tuning of openings for attacks and so the ideology seems set against itself. The fluidity of whatever it currently is actually pretzeled to leave 1v1s feeling bland and large group fights not frustrating but tone deaf. It will be good for a beta primer introduction but it will continue to hit itself in the foot if it sees the new player as unable to learn new ways to deal with singular and larger threats. kick will lead to the wrong kind of casualties but will seemingly leave more people dead.

Things can be smooth and still work against the goal of an engaging combat system that will lend itself to skill over time.