Combat is boring, a note to Henrik.

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Valoran

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May 28, 2020
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The only true reason I see people admiring the slow combat is because they feel empowered because the system now crutches their inability to react.

I get everyone keeps throwing out the term fair and unfair. Having 300+ ping isn't what I'd lump into a category of fair or unfair, it's more this is a technical limitation.

But, as an FYI, not myself or anyone I've seen previously who played MO1 is advocating for laggy, desynced bullshit. We're not wanting buggy, broken combat.

No one is advocating for that.

We just want it to be faster, and to allow better players to shine more and allow players who invest time to be able to show their time invested.
That's just it though, having 300 ping was not a technical limitation last patch as it was completely possible to play on a 99% fair playing field to someone who had 10 ping bar a few outlier situations. It still is mostly fair although the balance has been shifted slightly.

There is also a disconnect here when you say you aren't advocating for lagging desynced combat, you just want it to be faster.

Making the combat faster by removing the release delay or the run speed a lot faster will cause desync and lag. There are reasons it was slowed down in the first place, it wasn't just done to accommodate people with terrible reaction times, it was done to make it actually possible to react.

If you want to speed the game up enough to make a big difference in feeling and combat, that is.

As I've been saying, there are some areas that can and hopefully will be sped up such as the normal swing charge times, but some specific areas cannot be sped up dramatically without massive issues for people with even medium-high ping.

So the best course of action would be to find the things that can be sped up without compromising anything else, and collectively as a community ask to speed them up.



As far as not agreeing that high ping players should be taken into account for the game balance, that's fair enough and you're well within your right to have that opinion, but Henrik has stated several times that he wants the game to be accessible for everyone around the world, not just EU and not just NA. In order for that to be the case, compromises have to be and have been made.
 

Bicorps

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Jun 27, 2020
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On MO1 the speed of weapon didnt really matter if you knew how to use the weapon even if it was slow. It was possible to Feint ennemy or going true some Block hit or exchange damage.

Now the problem with "Speed" and "Parry PingPong Game" on MO2 is because player get limited on what they can or cant do. Just the fact you cant hold charge your weapon anymore remove one of the multiple technic you could use against a parry whore.

If you keep removing all these technic ( 360 spin, Holding Weapon and trying to get a Block hit or exchange hit, 180 Hiding Weapon+Charging Piercing 180 hit) I could say a bunch of other tricks that u cant use anymore in MO2 because of character limited Movement.

So yes. people have a good reason to complain about it. but in same time I think blaming speed is a big mistake. Also higher ping player will always be in disadvantage PARRY wise against a low ping player. BUT the higher ping player have an advantage if he fight Aggressively and dont focus on parry, specially in team fights since parry in teamfight is not the greatest idee sometime.

What I liked of MO1 melee combat is that i had more than 1 tricks in my pocket to pull out on my ennemy... there was ALWAYS a way to beat someone in melee, the only thing u had to do is find the way. Its all these little thing that make a videogame skill based which is not totally the case in MO2.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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On MO1 the speed of weapon didnt really matter if you knew how to use the weapon even if it was slow. It was possible to Feint ennemy or going true some Block hit or exchange damage.

Now the problem with "Speed" and "Parry PingPong Game" on MO2 is because player get limited on what they can or cant do. Just the fact you cant hold charge your weapon anymore remove one of the multiple technic you could use against a parry whore.

If you keep removing all these technic ( 360 spin, Holding Weapon and trying to get a Block hit or exchange hit, 180 Hiding Weapon+Charging Piercing 180 hit) I could say a bunch of other tricks that u cant use anymore in MO2 because of character limited Movement.

So yes. people have a good reason to complain about it. but in same time I think blaming speed is a big mistake. Also higher ping player will always be in disadvantage PARRY wise against a low ping player. BUT the higher ping player have an advantage if he fight Aggressively and dont focus on parry, specially in team fights since parry in teamfight is not the greatest idee sometime.

What I liked of MO1 melee combat is that i had more than 1 tricks in my pocket to pull out on my ennemy... there was ALWAYS a way to beat someone in melee, the only thing u had to do is find the way. Its all these little thing that make a videogame skill based which is not totally the case in MO2.
Indeed people complained about defensive playstyle BEFORE all these nerfs. I tried to tell people this but to no avail.

its really no fun playing against the game designers and not your opponents, really makes you not want to bother.
 

Jhackman

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Jun 6, 2020
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On MO1 the speed of weapon didnt really matter if you knew how to use the weapon even if it was slow. It was possible to Feint ennemy or going true some Block hit or exchange damage.

Now the problem with "Speed" and "Parry PingPong Game" on MO2 is because player get limited on what they can or cant do. Just the fact you cant hold charge your weapon anymore remove one of the multiple technic you could use against a parry whore.

If you keep removing all these technic ( 360 spin, Holding Weapon and trying to get a Block hit or exchange hit, 180 Hiding Weapon+Charging Piercing 180 hit) I could say a bunch of other tricks that u cant use anymore in MO2 because of character limited Movement.

So yes. people have a good reason to complain about it. but in same time I think blaming speed is a big mistake. Also higher ping player will always be in disadvantage PARRY wise against a low ping player. BUT the higher ping player have an advantage if he fight Aggressively and dont focus on parry, specially in team fights since parry in teamfight is not the greatest idee sometime.

What I liked of MO1 melee combat is that i had more than 1 tricks in my pocket to pull out on my ennemy... there was ALWAYS a way to beat someone in melee, the only thing u had to do is find the way. Its all these little thing that make a videogame skill based which is not totally the case in MO2.

Having played MO1 from hawaii for a few years I think I can say more then most the old ping really wasnt bad. I haven’t tried mo2 yet but I think they could make a middle ground from mo1 and where mo2 is now and be still fun and slightly less eu parry whore centric.

Then at a later time they can add another region and make it NA server based and everyone might be happy.. lol... just for the love of god don’t give us sandyland.. save that for the aussies.
 
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Lasciel

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Oct 3, 2020
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Funny thing is about this ping normalization non-sense is even if you do encounter someone with 300+ ping, all the same desyncy crap happens that people seem to think doesn't. It's still more beneficial to be laggier in this game because parrying is so braindead easy there's a limit to how much a player can actually do to get around defense.

You're better off with a shittier connection so your swings make less sense because of lag. This isn't good design. The world isn't fair, people aren't equal, and pings aren't going to be either. It's better for the majority of players to have an ability for skill to shine through than make it so a small portion can feel empowered by forcing everyone into a wheelchair.

Mortal 1 mechanics were painfully slow, and parrying was braindead in that game as well, even for someone with NA ping. The difference was, the movement speed was at least higher and the games mechanics allowed for more options. The parry radius was lesser, so at least there was some chance you could go around a block. Not to mention handle-hits and equipment made a lot more sense.

Equipment hits literally just make it so that at random your hits do no damage in MO2, for no good reason. It's hilariously disruptive to gameplay. Should be restricted to shield users, although anyone that remembers MO1 knows how overpowered that was.
 

Ministro

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Dec 3, 2020
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its really no fun playing against the game designers and not your opponents, really makes you not want to bother.
You complain about other people on this forum, implying they dont' know what they're talking about; now you complain that you have to be "against the game designers"? If you are against the game designers, perhaps it's time for you to go find another game. You won't "win" against the game designers, and the whining is getting old.

It's not your game, it's theirs, bye.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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You complain about other people on this forum, implying they dont' know what they're talking about; now you complain that you have to be "against the game designers"? If you are against the game designers, perhaps it's time for you to go find another game. You won't "win" against the game designers, and the whining is getting old.

It's not your game, it's theirs, bye.
You don't know what you're talking about.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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You complain about other people on this forum, implying they dont' know what they're talking about; now you complain that you have to be "against the game designers"? If you are against the game designers, perhaps it's time for you to go find another game. You won't "win" against the game designers, and the whining is getting old.

It's not your game, it's theirs, bye.
You don't know what you're talking about.

Very accurate.
 

Lasciel

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Oct 3, 2020
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You complain about other people on this forum, implying they dont' know what they're talking about; now you complain that you have to be "against the game designers"? If you are against the game designers, perhaps it's time for you to go find another game. You won't "win" against the game designers, and the whining is getting old.

It's not your game, it's theirs, bye.

You fight against the game design because it doesn't allow you to actually fight your opponent. The systems don't allow for player skill to take front seat, so finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game is the only way to fight. Hence fighting against the game designers, and not your opponent.

Might not be your language, bye?
 

Ministro

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Dec 3, 2020
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You fight against the game design because it doesn't allow you to actually fight your opponent. The systems don't allow for player skill to take front seat, so finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game is the only way to fight. Hence fighting against the game designers, and not your opponent.
"I can't get easy quick kills anymore, so I want my exploits from MO1 back."

There, fixed that for ya.

If you're having trouble fighting your opponent, perhaps you should learn to win without having to resort to such exploits. This isn't MO1, and SV has obviously made a conscious decision to not let gameplay exceed speeds that allow de-syncing tricks, and I applaud them for that. I'm also not going to apologize just because you're going to have to actually learn how to fight, instead of relying on, as you put it, "finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game". Too bad for you; learn to use better aim, feints, and footwork.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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"I can't get easy quick kills anymore, so I want my exploits from MO1 back."

There, fixed that for ya.

If you're having trouble fighting your opponent, perhaps you should learn to win without having to resort to such exploits. This isn't MO1, and SV has obviously made a conscious decision to not let gameplay exceed speeds that allow de-syncing tricks, and I applaud them for that. I'm also not going to apologize just because you're going to have to actually learn how to fight, instead of relying on, as you put it, "finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game". Too bad for you; learn to use better aim, feints, and footwork.

stop defending easy, no skill combat system. get better.
 

Lasciel

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Oct 3, 2020
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"I can't get easy quick kills anymore, so I want my exploits from MO1 back."

There, fixed that for ya.

If you're having trouble fighting your opponent, perhaps you should learn to win without having to resort to such exploits. This isn't MO1, and SV has obviously made a conscious decision to not let gameplay exceed speeds that allow de-syncing tricks, and I applaud them for that. I'm also not going to apologize just because you're going to have to actually learn how to fight, instead of relying on, as you put it, "finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game". Too bad for you; learn to use better aim, feints, and footwork.


Lol.

It's so ironic how little you understood about my post and it proves it all the more. I'm not going to apologize either for criticizing a simplistic and depthless system that allows for little more than "stand and parry" gameplay. You ignored my entire post pretty much and just spouted some useless bullshit.

That's literally what you do in MO2. You find ways to subvert the design because the base gameplay doesn't provide mechanics with enough depth or complexity to be difficult, so everyone is on the same level. Do you think SV's intention was to have people doing ridiculous 360s, and sitting there purposefully hitting the ground so the next swing charges faster? Do you think any of these are clear intended game mechanics? I have some crayons for you to nibble on if you think that.

Though considering your reading comprehension of my post I suspect you already do.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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Lol.

It's so ironic how little you understood about my post and it proves it all the more. I'm not going to apologize either for criticizing a simplistic and depthless system that allows for little more than "stand and parry" gameplay. You ignored my entire post pretty much and just spouted some useless bullshit.

That's literally what you do in MO2. You find ways to subvert the design because the base gameplay doesn't provide mechanics with enough depth or complexity to be difficult, so everyone is on the same level. Do you think SV's intention was to have people doing ridiculous 360s, and sitting there purposefully hitting the ground so the next swing charges faster? Do you think any of these are clear intended game mechanics? I have some crayons for you to nibble on if you think that.

Though considering your reading comprehension of my post I suspect you already do.

yeah man im real glad we escaped mo1's ice skating.. GOD that looked awful. i much rather prefer people slinging their mouse by the cord or just whipping their hand to spin 20 times then jump only to hit the ground then repeat and throw out a stab only for it to be parried cause the combat is slow enough to keep up with this visual autism that is the current game combat.
 

Lasciel

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Oct 3, 2020
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yeah man im real glad we escaped mo1's ice skating.. GOD that looked awful. i much rather prefer people slinging their mouse by the cord or just whipping their hand to spin 20 times then jump only to hit the ground then repeat and throw out a stab only for it to be parried cause the combat is slow enough to keep up with this visual autism that is the current game combat.

Nah man, you're just some child who wants some reflex beat'em'up'whipper'snapper'action'game'thing and you're ageist against boomers so people with liver-spotted hands can't compete. Oh and you hate the fact that people who can only play a game with voice commands can compete with you now.
 

Handsome Young Man

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So far participating on these forums has told me that I am a:

- Potential domestic abuser.
- Liar.
- Ageist.
- Intellectual lightweight.

Mortal Online 2 forums turning into WebMD diagnosing me with tons of shit, wouldn't be surprised to find out if I also have cancer in a few weeks.
 
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Ori

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Dec 1, 2020
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So far participating on these forums has told me that I am a:

- Potential domestic abuser.
- Liar.
- Ageist.
- Intellectual lightweight.

Mortal Online 2 forums turning into WebMD diagnosing me with tons of shit, wouldn't be surprised to find out if I also have cancer in a few weeks.

I would have gone with rabies, just need a little more time to confirm.
 
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Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
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"I can't get easy quick kills anymore, so I want my exploits from MO1 back."

There, fixed that for ya.

If you're having trouble fighting your opponent, perhaps you should learn to win without having to resort to such exploits. This isn't MO1, and SV has obviously made a conscious decision to not let gameplay exceed speeds that allow de-syncing tricks, and I applaud them for that. I'm also not going to apologize just because you're going to have to actually learn how to fight, instead of relying on, as you put it, "finding ways to subvert the design via animation glitching or various other ways of screwing with the game". Too bad for you; learn to use better aim, feints, and footwork.
1v1?
 
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