Casuals over PvPers?

[Tzone]

Henrik wants a "casual" focused game he said on stream. As a explanation for the Anti PvP changes. But casuals want PvP too.
Just look at rust. 106,793 24 hour peak of concurrent players. They prob have over a million active players.

Is rust a hardcore game? Much more hardcore then MO2 is for sure. Are the a million non casual players playing rust? No, plenty of casuals play rust. Most of that player pop is children playing casually. There are not a million super scary leet RPK players playing Rust.

MO2 is not a game its a hobby. Playing casually is about not having to be dedicated to a game. Its not about being able to play in a safe space PvE only server. Casuals want PvP like everyone else, they just want it quickly with out much of a time sink.

So if you want casuals in your game, punishing them for PvP, and adding timesinks to PvP is not how you get them to play your game. You try to remove near town PvP from your game to keep casuals in your game is just out of touch. Near town PvP was the casual PvP of the game good or bad. A casual player would log in and get a fight. Thats what a casual player wants out of most game sessions.

Like you are trying to make PvPers quit your game to keep casuals in it. But all your are doing is making the casuals who PvP quit instead. The big bad scary PKer is still in game killing carebears and outher lesser players to their hearts content. They will be here because there really is not anything else to play. No matter how bad you make their gameplay suck or punishing you wont make them stop. Only a better game coming out will make them stop.

Changes like removing red priest, and then placing blue priest in lawless areas/dungeons failed to solve what problem you think you had. Even making it more punishing to kill players in lawless areas like GK and jungle by making the dungeons and red priest give rep loss to tind or khurite isnt going to work. Nothing you did in the past work. It just made the weaker more casual PvP interested player quit.


Closing - Casuals like PvP, they can also like RP, Trade, PvE, and every other little thing. The thing how ever that gets them is not dying to people, its the time they have to put in to get content out of a game. If you want casuals dont focus on removing content like PvP which you have been. Or trying to make more time sinks. Just work on making MO2 not require lots of time investment. MO2 is a hobby right now, requires time investment.

The game is dying, you lost 700 people or 20% of your concurrent pop in just 2 days. Doubling down on anti PvP changes is not going to make casual players stay, its just going to make them leave. Returning to beta numbers but with out the beta population.

 

[Jatix]

Like you are trying to make PvPers quit your game to keep casuals in it. But all your are doing is making the casuals who PvP quit instead.

This. I probobly cant count as a casual because I've played MO for 10 years but I play like 1-2 hours a night now, when I actually played. That's pretty casual tier. And I play to pvp on random kids. So they pretty much removed any hope of me playing the game. Its just a tedium simulator, and is only playable at all because I can abuse a blue friend to get gear and bank. So if I'm not having a great ass time, the game isn't worth playing. And I'm usually not because being unguilded in MO its trash anyway, I get zerged 80% of the time I attack anyone. So its not worth playing for anyone like me. And they are only making that worse with every patch.

Ya making me quit prob saves a few nubs from quitting short term. But when the pve players realize this games pve experience is boring they are going to quit anyway,

 

[Jandles]

YES! Currently there is already the time sink of traveling around and that is already enough, I don't want even more timesinks that feel pointless, casual players aren't going to stick around at this rate, too many punishments, not enough rewards to make it worth it.

 

[Ogo Mier]

Paying players will of course stop playing if they get killed for no reason. It's her free time, her hobby, so why get teased for money. I was threatened that if we see you we will kill you. Hello ? That can not be. PvP is supposed to involve two warring parties who both want to fight each other consciously as soldiers to win a war but not kill the civilian population, this is murder in the game and the victim should pay for it monthly ??????

My suggestion: limit PvP to acts of war and improve the economy and survival.

Translated with Google.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

Best solution would be just to add more pvp objectives like sieging. and PvP Hotspots. That way pvp players get to have fun contesting over resources and events and get fun and epic pvp battles and casual players are less bothered because the PVP players are focused on killing each other. The main problem is that since there are no pvp objectives or events pvp players can only profit off of killing crafters and gatherers. Its just a bad loop because not only is it not fun for the crafters but also not fun for the pvpers. Then the crafters quit. Pkers run out of people to pk for profit and they quit. Really need more rewarding systems to encourage PvPers to fight fellow PvPers for loot and glory instead of just slaughtering miners in big groups of mounted archers

 

[tumor]

Paying players will of course stop playing if they get killed for no reason. It's her free time, her hobby, so why get teased for money. I was threatened that if we see you we will kill you. Hello ? That can not be. PvP is supposed to involve two warring parties who both want to fight each other consciously as soldiers to win a war but not kill the civilian population, this is murder in the game and the victim should pay for it monthly ??????

My suggestion: limit PvP to acts of war and improve the economy and survival.

Translated with Google.

So...a pvp toggle? lmao

 

[CrgHck]

Paying players will of course stop playing if they get killed for no reason

If I wouldnt get randomly and brutally murdered I would stop playing/paying. The chance that you might get murdered at any time is the only reason I'm here. there are lots of better games for PvE and RP if you dont care about the realism of your RP..

 

[Ogo Mier]

we will see ...

 

[Dramonis]

So if you want casuals in your game, punishing them for PvP, and adding timesinks to PvP is not how you get them to play your game.

I totally agree with your statement less time leveling = more time for fun, politics, exploration, and crafting.

Changes like removing red priest, and then placing blue priest in lawless areas/dungeons failed to solve what problem you think you had. Even making it more punishing to kill players in lawless areas like GK and jungle by making the dungeons and red priest give rep loss to tind or khurite isnt going to work. Nothing you did in the past work. It just made the weaker more casual PvP interested player quit.

I think SV is trying to stop RPK and RPK guilds in lawful areas, So basically... their changes are working.

I think random pk should be punished hard to ppl understand that PVP is good only in wars, lawless areas shouldn't be 100% lawless they could have a Guild domination system, and the guild that governs the city decide how many guards and laws can be applied there

The game is dying, you lost 700 people or 20% of your concurrent pop in just 2 days. Doubling down on anti PvP changes is not going to make casual players stay, its just going to make them leave. Returning to beta numbers but without the beta population.

The game isn't dying cuz didn't even end the beta, the down-of-player match with the lunch of Elden Ring, Lost ark... Well as I said in the MO3 post. Another point is month didn't end so this -36% can change, there is no reason to panic neither is a good argument to make Henrik pay attention.

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	3,086.6	-1,745.4	-36.12%	6,329
February 2022	4,832.1	+2,897.6	+149.79%	8,867
January 2022	1,934.5	+1,314.0	+211.78%	9,618
December 2021	620.4	+182.1	+41.54%	1,084
November 2021	438.4	-	-	892

 

[Finnley]

I totally agree with your statement less time leveling = more time for fun, politics, exploration, and crafting.

I think SV is trying to stop RPK and RPK guilds in lawful areas, So basically... their changes are working.

I think random pk should be punished hard to ppl understand that PVP is good only in wars, lawless areas shouldn't be 100% lawless they could have a Guild domination system, and the guild that governs the city decide how many guards and laws can be applied there

The game isn't dying cuz didn't even end the beta, the down-of-player match with the lunch of Elden Ring, Lost ark... Well as I said in the MO3 post. Another point is month didn't end so this -36% can change, there is no reason to panic neither is a good argument to make Henrik pay attention.

The game is dying cause they keep ignoring the core issues and their changes are in the absolut wrong direction.
Every single time you pvp you get punished as if you where random player killing
There is no working war system
There are no lawless zones

 

[Solairerection]

I think a quick fix would be to hurry the fuck up about adding more basic TC stuff such as banks, shared ownership and more extraction tools, so we can finally start living in our houses/villages and be self-sufficient, away from the towns. Ofcourse it will not fully fix the problems of the game, but it will mitigate it since those who choose to live far outside of town don't have to care about standing and murdercounts anymore.

 

[Tzone]

I totally agree with your statement less time leveling = more time for fun, politics, exploration, and crafting.



I think SV is trying to stop RPK and RPK guilds in lawful areas, So basically... their changes are working.

I think random pk should be punished hard to ppl understand that PVP is good only in wars, lawless areas shouldn't be 100% lawless they could have a Guild domination system, and the guild that governs the city decide how many guards and laws can be applied there



The game isn't dying cuz didn't even end the beta, the down-of-player match with the lunch of Elden Ring, Lost ark... Well as I said in the MO3 post. Another point is month didn't end so this -36% can change, there is no reason to panic neither is a good argument to make Henrik pay attention.

Well its been anti PvP patch after patch. And nothing really worked. Every attempt they did, did not stop or hinder "RPK", it just lost them players. I know these players who are quiting because the game waste there time for PvPing which is the games main content. When they added rep lost on guard argo, and the horrible fed ex for rep systems they only backfired and forces the PvPers to go full murder hobo. When you are full murder hobo you just kill everyone. Old risar system rep system was great because it got people away from the towns to get rep. But carebear type players were upset that

(I only used RPK because its the made up buzzword anti PvPers like to use to discredit PvPers. I dont even believe it exist. Nothing random about killing a player in this game. They came out and got PvP'd, they had consequences for playing in a unsafe manner)

Like the jungle and GK area are not lawfull area. Not a guard near there for a hour of travel but they added anti PvP mechanics at the PvP hotspots (Dungeons). At this point its not that SV doenst want PvP near towns, its that they just dont want PvP in a PvP game. Henrik might say its not only a PvP game but PvP is the reason most people play, the reason most people grind the PvE, and the reason people craft/market.

Where is the lawfull area, where is the lawless area? We had lawless areas, and PvP hotspot, but you are punished for PvPing there now hours away from a town.

We just dropped down 700 concurrent peak players in 3 days a month after elden ring released. This game is dying faster then New World.
When SV fixes the main server capacity and removes the alt server you will see a jump in pop. I know a lot of people that stopped playing because the alt servers (which were needed at the time) allow people to avoid PvP.


We had a strong steady beta population that played the game through the worst of times, with seemingly less content. In reality those pre anti PvP patch days had loads more of content because the casual PvP was allowed to PvP. A lot of those casual PvPs from beta who had 1000s of hours quit or bearly play anymore because of the anti PvP patches. But it didnt stop the killing of players around towns. At points it only made it worse because if you were a red player might as well kill that naked at graveyard because you are already forever negative rep.

RPK is not bad, its not even real. People have every means to not get killed but they feel as if they should be allowed to AFK hit a rock in peace. That they should be able to go do a dungeon for endgame resources with out competition or challenge.

Henrik is too focused on removing the content we already have and has kept this game going for a year before the wipe, then fixing core issues.


Also on a side note.
THEY WANT TO ADD A AUTOMATIC WAR DEC SYSTEM. That is the most insane and out of touch Idea I have heard. That would just allow us to force wardecs with other guilds and then just slaughter them with impunity and no cost.

Like imagine being a casual nooby guild and not being able to defend yourself because if you do it could allow a wardec to automaticly happen. Like we will just keep killing you and nothing you will do will help. We dont care about being war dec, we live in kran/GK. Everyone already has the opportunity to war dec us but chooses not to.

We already spawn naked blue alts at keeps and auto run them into the keep doors and then murder count the keep owners. Now with the rep loss on dungeon priest we just walk for not even a minute and give the keep owners rep loss. Thanks Henrik.

If I wouldnt get randomly and brutally murdered I would stop playing/paying. The chance that you might get murdered at any time is the only reason I'm here. there are lots of better games for PvE and RP if you dont care about the realism of your RP..

Yeah one of the biggest draws to this game is that rush you get from survival games. Where you could be attacked at any moment and when you do, you get all that adrenaline pumping.

I know a lot of people that play specifically for that while this game is a MMO.

 

[Tzone]

Just need to bring up how bad the preist changes are for blue players.

Literally had a dude follow 6 blue RPers in the GK area to a horse spawn and killed the untamed horse in front of them to keep them from leaving untill he had more come to kill them.

Blue players cant even defend them selves against obvious hostiles just scouting them or harassing them.

These Anti PvP changes have always back fired in the "real world" implementation.

We reds would just outright kill a person scouting us like that but for a person that wants to live in tind or have no MCs they cant do anything about people following them around because the risk is too high for a MC/Rep loss if the player was blue. And we would for sure have blue alts ready to harass players and give them neg rep.

 

[Dramonis]

The game is dying cause they keep ignoring the core issues and their changes are in the absolut wrong direction.
Every single time you pvp you get punished as if you where random player killing
There is no working war system
There are no lawless zones

except for the game dying part, I totally agree with you.

 

[Dramonis]

Well its been anti PvP patch after patch. And nothing really worked. Every attempt they did, did not stop or hinder "RPK", it just lost them players. I know these players who are quiting because the game waste there time for PvPing which is the games main content. When they added rep lost on guard argo, and the horrible fed ex for rep systems they only backfired and forces the PvPers to go full murder hobo. When you are full murder hobo you just kill everyone. Old risar system rep system was great because it got people away from the towns to get rep. But carebear type players were upset that

(I only used RPK because its the made up buzzword anti PvPers like to use to discredit PvPers. I dont even believe it exist. Nothing random about killing a player in this game. They came out and got PvP'd, they had consequences for playing in a unsafe manner)

Like the jungle and GK area are not lawfull area. Not a guard near there for a hour of travel but they added anti PvP mechanics at the PvP hotspots (Dungeons). At this point its not that SV doenst want PvP near towns, its that they just dont want PvP in a PvP game. Henrik might say its not only a PvP game but PvP is the reason most people play, the reason most people grind the PvE, and the reason people craft/market.

Where is the lawfull area, where is the lawless area? We had lawless areas, and PvP hotspot, but you are punished for PvPing there now hours away from a town.

We just dropped down 700 concurrent peak players in 3 days a month after elden ring released. This game is dying faster then New World.
When SV fixes the main server capacity and removes the alt server you will see a jump in pop. I know a lot of people that stopped playing because the alt servers (which were needed at the time) allow people to avoid PvP.


We had a strong steady beta population that played the game through the worst of times, with seemingly less content. In reality those pre anti PvP patch days had loads more of content because the casual PvP was allowed to PvP. A lot of those casual PvPs from beta who had 1000s of hours quit or bearly play anymore because of the anti PvP patches. But it didnt stop the killing of players around towns. At points it only made it worse because if you were a red player might as well kill that naked at graveyard because you are already forever negative rep.

RPK is not bad, its not even real. People have every means to not get killed but they feel as if they should be allowed to AFK hit a rock in peace. That they should be able to go do a dungeon for endgame resources with out competition or challenge.

Henrik is too focused on removing the content we already have and has kept this game going for a year before the wipe, then fixing core issues.


Also on a side note.
THEY WANT TO ADD A AUTOMATIC WAR DEC SYSTEM. That is the most insane and out of touch Idea I have heard. That would just allow us to force wardecs with other guilds and then just slaughter them with impunity and no cost.

Like imagine being a casual nooby guild and not being able to defend yourself because if you do it could allow a wardec to automaticly happen. Like we will just keep killing you and nothing you will do will help. We dont care about being war dec, we live in kran/GK. Everyone already has the opportunity to war dec us but chooses not to.

We already spawn naked blue alts at keeps and auto run them into the keep doors and then murder count the keep owners. Now with the rep loss on dungeon priest we just walk for not even a minute and give the keep owners rep loss. Thanks Henrik.



Yeah one of the biggest draws to this game is that rush you get from survival games. Where you could be attacked at any moment and when you do, you get all that adrenaline pumping.

I know a lot of people that play specifically for that while this game is a MMO.

I got what you mean, I agree but I just think is too early to say that the game is dying.

 

[aarvex]

Casual players want non consensual PvP to be more difficult (ganking), and want content where you can hop on for like 30 minutes - 1 hour and get something done.

Right now ganking is extremely easy, if you get ambushed by like 2 people you're dead. If they kill your horse there is no escape. You couple this with an empty map with no spots to farm and it makes the issues that much worse. In Albion you have ways as a solo / casual player to gather top tier resources, farm EXP or even do 1v1 / 2v2 pvp. You don't have anything like this in MO, you head to 1 of 3 bandit camps within 30 minutes of the town you are based out of, buttslut69 and milfhunter see you off your horse kill it in two seconds and then you're easy pickings.

It needs to be mechanically difficult to gank, not some bizarre system of reputation.

 

[Finnley]

I am a casual player
I want PvP to be easier to take part in
I want extraction timers to be gone
I want donkeys outside every city
I want main roads between towns
I want paths in the jungle and passes in the mountains
I want towns that are big enough to house the small playerbase

 

[Emdash]

Add RED back, RED is open pvp but can enter towns/is protected by guards in towns. Add in increasing timer for ressing at the same priest to deter griefing/punish dying repeatedly to allow for territory control. GG.

Casual = anyone whose gameplay does not require constant management. Hardcore is not the opposite of that. Hardcore is a mind set. We want to keep the hardcore like "pepper your angus" when you log in mind set for MO. You can't say, "Killed for no reason" because that's leaving you up to decide whether your death was justified... high chance of bias.

There are enough people who wanna hold keeps and play management to drive the game. But you should def take a breath as your char is loading in cuz you don't know what is gonna be on the other side of that screen. If MO loses that, that sucks. What does it have? Currently, not much.

Unfortunately, I am pretty sure nobody (or at least I certainly don't, and I have pretty high self confidence w/ words) can make people understand things they don't want to understand or change people's minds once they have decided.

All this complexity to fix simple problems, nonsense. You don't even need a war dec system if pvp is working right haha. Unless you wanna see a kill score or something. It's so misguided that it actually makes me sad. Like 'moment of reflection' sad, especially now that I realize nobody is listening to 'us.' And nah I don't full agree w/ most suggestions, either, but most of them would still be better than what we have now.

edit: and I can understand why blues would dislike a red = open pvp only system, but any pvpers who are afraid to be open pvp after a certain amount of pks, all I can say is... yall got soft behind your walls in MO1 haha.

 

[Bloodmasked]

im noob but my opinion is that criminal system should only apply within towns, everything outside of town should be lawless with no reputation or murder counts.

also it doesn't make sense to have both the reputation AND murder count system. only reputation should exist imo. e.g. if you have max reputation in a town, you can't spawn there because you "murdered" people on the other side of the map? doesn't make sense. theres alot of issues like this which makes me think the systems for pvp are not nearly fully fleshed out.

 

[Dramonis]

im noob but my opinion is that criminal system should only apply within towns, everything outside of town should be lawless with no reputation or murder counts.

also it doesn't make sense to have both the reputation AND murder count system. only reputation should exist imo. e.g. if you have max reputation in a town, you can't spawn there because you "murdered" people on the other side of the map? doesn't make sense. there's alot of issues like this which makes me think the systems for pvp are not nearly fully fleshed out.

I agree with you. Rep system should be something that makes NPCs around town "help" you like the management skill, give discount and more bank slots, allow you buy a house inside the town.

And Criminal status should be something separated like something like GTA with levels of criminal acts, and ways to punish the person in case the guy
gets caught committing a crime. Making guards hostile to well-known criminals, and murder counts system be a counter for bounty rewards giving rep and gold.