Bug report, My character drains stamina on underweight bows.

[Herius]

But this is clearly not the case. From your explanation a human with 109 strength should have the same experience as an alvarian with 89 strength and the clades. Which is not the case. A human with 109 str that pulls a 108 bow has stamina drain equal to stamina gain resulting in the stamina bar being frozen. An alvarian does not lose the penalty for having a bow above their strength completely and manifests more stamina drain than gain despite having increased stamina gain while standing still.

No...
Thats what im trying to explain, the clade does NOT work like it adds +20 strength to your character, it ONLY removes the penalty for using bows up to +20 strength above your characters strength.

 

[Minyiky]

No...
Thats what im trying to explain, the clade does NOT work like it adds +20 strength to your character, it ONLY removes the penalty for using bows up to +20 strength above your characters strength.

Can I ask why you have added stamina drain for an over strength bow that is specifically targeted at veelas using the clade.

I say specifically targeted as the 'penalty' is much larger than the stam used by simply being over strength and so will be the dominating factor in all other cases.

There is a big difference between regaining and losing stamina for a foot archer and makes veelas (already not in a great place) even worse.

 

[EZgold]

Normal stamina drain is not a penalty, its just the cost to keeping the bow drawn.
Simply put, using a bow over your characters strength will cost stamina, and a bow under your character strength will regenerate stamina.

But, on top of this, there is a penalty for using bows over your character strength that makes the bow drain more stamina on top of the normal stamina drain.

It's this penalty that gets removed by the Clade Gifts, making your character able to use higher strength requiring bows at normal stamina drain.
This, combined with the Aiming Technique skill will however make you able to use these bows without draining stamina.

With this explanation the clade gift description is clearly misleading. You should just say "It lowers some of the stamina drain".

3. Why would you state something as a fact when you don't know how it will work? (Hint: it won't drain your stamina with aiming technique at max level.)

This is the Aiming Technique skill description : "0-50% reduced stamina drain when holding a pulled bow". It has been like this since forever and this is still the current description. Now tell me how 50% of ANY stamina drain is going to be zero. Unless it's zero to begin with.

 

[Herius]

Can I ask why you have added stamina drain for an over strength bow that is specifically targeted at veelas using the clade.

I say specifically targeted as the 'penalty' is much larger than the stam used by simply being over strength and so will be the dominating factor in all other cases.

There is a big difference between regaining and losing stamina for a foot archer and makes veelas (already not in a great place) even worse.

This is not only targeting veelas, every race has this penalty of course.
But the kicker is that veelas can bypass it with clades up to 20 strength, and then, when they combine the clade gifts with the Aiming Technique skill they can use powerful bows without any stamina drain.

 

[Minyiky]

This is not only targeting veelas, every race has this penalty of course.
But the kicker is that veelas can bypass it with clades up to 20 strength, and then, when they combine the clade gifts with the Aiming Technique skill they can use powerful bows without any stamina drain.

The bit that is targetted is not the penalty that is removed by the clades, but the small stam drain that exists afterwards, no other race will notice this as the penalty is much larger, therefore the small stam drain is almost entirely specific to veelas with the clades

Also veelas even with the clades cannot use bows that are as strong as most other races, and even some humans, and when those races use those bows they have no stam drain even without aiming techniques, making veelas bad archers.

Do you understand where I am coming from with this?

 

[ZVNII]

No...
Thats what im trying to explain, the clade does NOT work like it adds +20 strength to your character, it ONLY removes the penalty for using bows up to +20 strength above your characters strength.

So the stamina drain of a bow is directly related to teh difference in your strength to the bows strength requirement. Hence causing the difference from one clade to alvarians. Since this would only affect alvarians this system, i wonder is only in place to make alvarians weaker archers to the extent that the stamina regeneration clade while stand still does not even offset this?

Fair enough if you want this to be the case that is your creative freedom however i would like to emphasis my original post. Why do you want alvarians to be weaker archers in every way with clades being band aids to make them slightly less weak and forcing primary based archery schools such as controlled aiming for teh archer to be comparable to other clades natural ability.

This is not in line with the lore as far as i can tell.

 

[Herius]

This is the Aiming Technique skill description : "0-50% reduced stamina drain when holding a pulled bow". It has been like this since forever and this is still the current description. Now tell me how 50% of ANY stamina drain is going to be zero. Unless it's zero to begin with.

Let's say the cost of holding the bow drawn is 10 stamina per tick.
10 * 1 = 10
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-10 = -2 (You lose 2 stamina every tick)

Now you have the Aiming technique skill, which reduces stamina drain by 50%
10 * 0.5 = 5
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-5 = 3 (You gain 3 stamina every tick)

 

[Minyiky]

Let's say the cost of holding the bow drawn is 10 stamina per tick.
10 * 1 = 10
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-10 = -2 (You lose 2 stamina every tick)

Now you have the Aiming technique skill, which reduces stamina drain by 50%
10 * 0.5 = 5
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-5 = 3 (You gain 3 stamina every tick)

The bonus will be the same for all races though right, and currently all races can use bows that are below their str and not lose stamina, therefore veelas, to use any kind of reasonable bow that is the equivalent of, or worse than, bows used by every other race must spend extra primaries to make themselves not worse, despite in lore being the best

 

[EZgold]

Let's say the cost of holding the bow drawn is 10 stamina per tick.
10 * 1 = 10
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-10 = -2 (You lose 2 stamina every tick)

Now you have the Aiming technique skill, which reduces stamina drain by 50%
10 * 0.5 = 5
Your characters natural stamina regeneration is 8 stamina per tick.
so 8-5 = 3 (You gain 3 stamina every tick)

k. this makes sense now. I guess I have to wait for the final implementation of AT to find my zero drain bow for my str with the clade gifts because i'ts not what I am expecting from the clade gifts description.

and sorry for the "garbage" comment. let's change it to "frustrating".
I wish this kind of explanations were more commonplace.

 

[ZVNII]

There is no doubt in my mind clade description is misleading because besides teh person who made teh system no one would know exactly what penalty is removed and just assume the bows would work normally

 

[Herius]

I'm locking this thread now until we get all systems implemented, and then we can continue the discussion if needed.
Love to you all for the feedback so far! <3