Bug report, My character drains stamina on underweight bows.

[Tzone]

Through testing I have confirmed that my character functions differently then others when it comes to bow STR.

I am a 89 STR Veela with + 20 bow STR bonus. This should mean that I can pull up to 109 bows with out draining stamina. But so far I have been draining stamina at about 1 per second all the way down untill I get to 101 STR bows.

I have switched bows with people and made new ones but I continue to lose a lil bit of stamina no matter what bow I have.
I have reloged enough and checked my weight to see that I was not under stout and that the +5 str was still there. Ive tested it with other veelas at 89STR with clade bonus and showed people on discord stream to confirm it was a bug.

I also have a case of my bows that I made before patch regenerate Stamina after you pull them back. I gave these bows to others to test and my pre patch 35% whitewood/crepite bow at 103.86 will gain several points of stamina back after you pull them back, but the post patch same recipe bow will stay steady. With my prepatch bows I can pull back a 106.3 bow and gain stamina, but with the same post patch bow I lose stamina. I've notice this change after the crash fix, before the Tuesday fix an, before and after the Monday update I saw no change in my testing regarding stamina.

When I get home I can take video's to show what is going on.

 

[Tzone]

So I found the cause to be the clade gift for +10 to bow STR.

With clades a bow at 115 will chunk my Stamina like normal.
A bow slightly under my supposed to be STR level for bows will slowly drain about 1 or two a second.
A bow above my original STR but with in 10 STR to test if only one clade was working would still slowly stam out.
A bow under my original STR like a 77 will function as if I was just under my bow limit. So it stablizes after the bow is fully pulled back.

I then removed two archer +10 STR clades then conducted the same test.

With clades a bow at 115 will chunk far more then before.
A bow slightly under 109 which should now be 20 over my bow STR will chunk a lot.
A bow above my original STR but with in 10 STR will chunk alot.
A bow under my original STR like a 77 will function as if I was just under my bow limit. So it stabilizes after the bow is fully pulled back.

I recreated this bug on another account, so I then verified game files to see if it would fix it. My next attempt to fix is I will reinstall the game.

@Herius can you look into this I can not play veela archer unless its with a short bow with this bug. Other players arent having this issue.

Edit: Just redownloaded the game, as I still have the issue.

 

[Tzone]

Both accounts still have this bug, I am a 80 or 89 STR archer untill fix. I dont even think rerolling wont solve issue since I rerolled my other account to attempt to fix the bug.

 

[Tzone]

Update: I was going to reroll to see if it fixed the issue this last weekend but my main account started working properly that friday. But Today after the patch my account went back to being broken. I really dont know whats going on.

 

[Reckiario]

It doesnt work for me either.

 

[Tzone]

It doesnt work for me either.

Thank you so much. Its bad that Im happy you have it too. Sorry.

 

[Fisher(Sath)]

appreciate the dedication and work. If only someone read these forums =/ If they do, they never speak about it.

 

[Speznat]

appreciate the dedication and work. If only someone read these forums =/ If they do, they never speak about it.

They read the forums no worries.
But henrik and sebastian often said that the team dotn want to write in forums, because many butthurt people here getting more butthurt when star vault lsitens to people. and in some peoples mind, they listen to the wrong people. And some suggestions raise fear if henrik would write something like yeah we patch this, and yeah we do this or we balance that. Than many people are happy but also a few people will be very butthurt.

I can understand why star vault rarely write something in the forums because sometimes the human toxic levle is sky high. Even from veterans and stuff. It just depends on the subject of the thread and posts. But in general.

Yes Star Vault reads the stuff and yeah i think they will write it on the todo list and fix that. But they will not say when or how they fix stuff because of the reasons listed above. But they did a lot of this in MO1 too, and they will do it. But sometimes it evne cna take years. but now with MO2 they fix stuff faster and priotise right. they learned a lot. xD so party hard.

 

[Minyiky]

I can confirm I am also having this bug

 

[Herius]

The clade gift is working as intended, it removes the penalty you usually get from using bows with higher strength requirement than your player strength.
But that does not mean that your bows wont drain any stamina when using the clade gifts, it just removes the "extra penalty".
So having -20 in bow strength requirement clade gift is not the same thing as your character having 20 more strength.

That said, in the next patch the aiming technique and marksmanship skill books will be added to the game which will give dedicated archers a stamina drain reduction and a higher weakspot chance.

 

[EZgold]

The clade gift is working as intended, it removes the penalty you usually get from using bows with higher strength requirement than your player strength.
But that does not mean that your bows wont drain any stamina when using the clade gifts, it just removes the "extra penalty".
So having -20 in bow strength requirement clade gift is not the same thing as your character having 20 more strength.

That said, in the next patch the aiming technique and marksmanship skill books will be added to the game which will give dedicated archers a stamina drain reduction and a higher weakspot chance.

What is that "extra penalty" that the clade gifts remove? The damage is the same with or without the gifts and with any bow that you manage to pull until the little timer ends. The only penalty that I can see in using a bow with higher str req than yours is ... stamina drain. Bows with less or equal stam requirement than yours will drain NO stamina even in the current situation when Aiming Technique is not implemented. This is what any archer looks for, the bow that for his strength will drain no stamina when pulled while standing still. But these clade gifts while lowering the stam drain a bit never reach a point where it zeroes out. So even when having both gifts, if your bow str is even one point higher than your actual strength it drains stamina while standing still. I call these "working as intended" : garbage. Even the incoming Aiming Technique is percent based so at max level it will just halve the normal stam drain which means that it still drains stamina.

 

[Herius]

1. What is that "extra penalty" that the clade gifts remove?.....

2. I call these "working as intended" : garbage....

3. Even the incoming Aiming Technique is percent based so at max level it will just halve the normal stam drain which means that it still drains stamina.

1. Once your bow strength requirement goes over your player strength there is a penalty that increases the stamina drain, with the clade gift this extra stam drain gets removed, but your bow will still have the normal stamina drain from the Bow Str Req vs the Player Str calculation.

2. It's your right to call it whatever you want.

3. Why would you state something as a fact when you don't know how it will work? (Hint: it won't drain your stamina with aiming technique at max level.)

 

[Minyiky]

1. Once your bow strength requirement goes over your player strength there is a penalty that increases the stamina drain, with the clade gift this extra stam drain gets removed, but your bow will still have the normal stamina drain from the Bow Str Req vs the Player Str calculation.

This is what isn't working.

I have a 57 str bow and a 77 str bow, my veela has 58 str.

With both of the veela bow str clades I should have an effective str of 78 for the purpose of using a bow

When I have both clades active and pull the 57 str bow I don't lose stamina

When I have neither clade active and pull the 57 str bow I don't lose stamina

When I have both clades active and pull the 77 str bow I lose stamina

Can you explain how that is the case if the clades are working as intended

 

[Herius]

This is what isn't working.

I have a 57 str bow and a 77 str bow, my veela has 58 str.

With both of the veela bow str clades I should have an effective str of 78 for the purpose of using a bow

When I have both clades active and pull the 57 str bow I don't lose stamina

When I have neither clade active and pull the 57 str bow I don't lose stamina

When I have both clades active and pull the 77 str bow I lose stamina

Can you explain how that is the case if the clades are working as intended

Try holding your 77 bow drawn without the clade gifts, and then with your clade gifts and you will see the difference with the penalty removed. (It will still take stamina, but not as much as with the penalty added)
And like I said before, the aiming technique skill will make a big difference.

 

[Minyiky]

Try holding your 77 bow drawn without the clade gifts, and then with your clade gifts and you will see the difference with the penalty removed. (It will still take stamina, but not as much as with the penalty added)
And like I said before, the aiming technique skill will make a big difference.

But that means that the clade is incredibly misleading, it says you can use bows that are 10 str above your limit, but that's apparently not how it works.

If this is really what you intended it to be then you need to change the wording on the clade gift. Alternatively can I request a change to be how everyone here thinks it should be working, as it is still not over powered compared to the other bow users, especially as I imagine people want to use veelas as foot archers to make use of their dex, which makes this stamina drain especially painful.

 

[Minyiky]

So having -20 in bow strength requirement clade gift is not the same thing as your character having 20 more strength.

Could you please explain exactly what the difference should be between a 77 str bow being used by a 78str char and a 58str char with both clades should be.

The clade says without penalty but clearly it is not the same, so what is it that is not being negated by the clade.

And just to confirm this has not always been the case, before a few weeks ago I could use the 77str bow with no stamina drain.

 

[ZVNII]

Try holding your 77 bow drawn without the clade gifts, and then with your clade gifts and you will see the difference with the penalty removed. (It will still take stamina, but not as much as with the penalty added)

And like I said before, the aiming technique skill will make a big difference.

This thread has sparked my interest to the extent that i am writing my first post. Let me rephrase your depiction of the situation in my words and please correct me if i am wrong.


Currently an alvarian with 89 strength with the 2 bow clades supposedly giving the ability to use a bow 20 points of strength higher (pseudo 109 str) will not have teh same experience as another clade in terms of stamina consumption during bow draw, i.e a human (109 strength) using the same 108 str bow.


The reasoning behind this is that the clade does not function as strength in regards to bow usage in the capacity of 1:1 . It is only meant to reduce some of the penalty. This is not well described within the game. In fact it is very poorly described as teh in game text of the clade reads "without penalty". If this clade is working as intended i highly suggest the text gets rewritten to something more accurate. Perhaps teh str gets reduced from 10 to 5 or the wording is changed.


If i am so far under teh correct assumptions i wonder why this is the course of direction you ahve decided to take. From my understanding of the lore, teh alvarians are supposedly naturally gifted with bow usage despite their weaker stature. To compensate for teh way strength and dexterity work in game there is teh clade bonus as a band aid to make alvarians on par to decent archers. Now what i am curious about is why are alvarian archers by far the worst clade to be an archer on currently. According to your own above description we need an additional primary school in archery to become equal to other clades natural state.

This further adds to alvarians over all weak state where their only combat advantage is moving approximately 10-15 cm per second faster than other clades. An alvarian archer that gets charged can only run away or drop their bow. Kiting is literally impossible unless a considerably weaker bow is used.


Thanks for your time reading, feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Herius]

Could you please explain exactly what the difference should be between a 77 str bow being used by a 78str char and a 58str char with both clades should be.

The clade says without penalty but clearly it is not the same, so what is it that is not being negated by the clade.

And just to confirm this has not always been the case, before a few weeks ago I could use the 77str bow with no stamina drain.

Normal stamina drain is not a penalty, its just the cost to keeping the bow drawn.
Simply put, using a bow over your characters strength will cost stamina, and a bow under your character strength will regenerate stamina.

But, on top of this, there is a penalty for using bows over your character strength that makes the bow drain more stamina on top of the normal stamina drain.

It's this penalty that gets removed by the Clade Gifts, making your character able to use higher strength requiring bows at normal stamina drain.
This, combined with the Aiming Technique skill will however make you able to use these bows without draining stamina.

The reason that older crafted bows drains less stamina is because it was before the balance of introducing more archery skills such as Aiming Technique.

 

[Minyiky]

Normal stamina drain is not a penalty, its just the cost to keeping the bow drawn.
Simply put, using a bow over your characters strength will cost stamina, and a bow under your character strength will regenerate stamina.

But, on top of this, there is a penalty for using bows over your character strength that makes the bow drain more stamina on top of the normal stamina drain.

It's this penalty that gets removed by the Clade Gifts, making your character able to use higher strength requiring bows at normal stamina drain.
This, combined with the Aiming Technique skill will however make you able to use these bows without draining stamina.

The reason that older crafted bows drains less stamina is because it was before the balance of introducing more archery skills such as Aiming Technique.

Please, Please, Please can you reconsider this for Veelas. They are the main group to be foot archers due to dex and low str and this extra use of stamina is crippling specifically to them when for a mounted archer the effect is basically negligable.

Especially as this is the only case in the entire game where you can have an overstr bow without that penalty in effect why have it in at all?

 

[ZVNII]

Normal stamina drain is not a penalty, its just the cost to keeping the bow drawn.
Simply put, using a bow over your characters strength will cost stamina, and a bow under your character strength will regenerate stamina.

But, on top of this, there is a penalty for using bows over your character strength that makes the bow drain more stamina on top of the normal stamina drain.

It's this penalty that gets removed by the Clade Gifts, making your character able to use higher strength requiring bows at normal stamina drain.
This, combined with the Aiming Technique skill will however make you able to use these bows without draining stamina.

The reason that older crafted bows drains less stamina is because it was before the balance of introducing more archery skills such as Aiming Technique.

But this is clearly not the case. From your explanation a human with 109 strength should have the same experience as an alvarian with 89 strength and the clades. Which is not the case. A human with 109 str that pulls a 108 bow has stamina drain equal to stamina gain resulting in the stamina bar being frozen. An alvarian does not lose the penalty for having a bow above their strength completely and manifests more stamina drain than gain despite having increased stamina gain while standing still.