Bandages - Community Discussion

[PatWins]

Hey everyone,

According to Sebastian in the MO2 general chat, support for bandages has been added as of today. The time has come for us to have a proper discussion regarding bandages and how they should function in MO2.

Sebastian stated that he feels the old implementation of bandages was "very odd". I feel that most MO1 players can agree with this statement in some way, shape or form.

This is meant to be an open forum for @Sebastian Persson & @Henrik Nyström to track suggestions/feedback regarding bandages. If there's something you feel strongly about regarding this topic, I urge you to leave a comment with your feedback/suggestions in a manner that is devoid of salt and easy for all readers to comprehend.

I will start this thread off with my personal suggestion.

MO2 - Bandages

• Bandages are now a channeled process accompanied by a "bandaging" animation
• Applying a bandage while moving takes 6 seconds and reduces maximum healing by 25%
• Applying a bandage while standing still takes 3 seconds and allows 100% healing capability (must remain still the entire duration)
• RNG is now completely removed. The only factors affecting your healing amount will be Anatomy level, whether you're moving/standing still, corruption, and how many times you take damage.
• While applying a bandage, max healing is reduced by 10% for every hit received

The overall idea is simple. Percentages and healing values are obviously ball-park guesses and will need to be tested/adjusted.

My main questions are

1. Should bandages heal over time?
2. Should your bandage channel be cancelled by damage?

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to hearing from all of you.

 

[Crewe]

I would say it would be good if it's just like MO1, bandages heal the most if you did not take damage, and the healing effectiveness starts to go down if you take fall damage or someone hit you,

Healing over time sounds interesting but it won't be useful if you can just sleep it off faster or get healed by a mage.

 

[Teknique]

devoid of salt



MO2 - Bandages

• Bandages are now a channeled process accompanied by a "bandaging" animation
• Applying a bandage while moving takes 6 seconds and reduces maximum healing by 25%
• Applying a bandage while standing still takes 3 seconds and allows 100% healing capability (must remain still the entire duration)
• RNG is now completely removed. The only factors affecting your healing amount will be Anatomy level, whether you're moving/standing still, corruption, and how many times you take damage.
• While applying a bandage, max healing is reduced by 10% for every hit received

My main questions are

1. Should bandages heal over time?
2. Should your bandage channel be cancelled by damage?

Thanks everyone! Looking forward to hearing from all of you.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Otherwise sounds pretty good.

the main questions should probably just work like mo 1, a chunk of health gained depending on how much damage you've taken.

 

[Eldrath]

The old bandage system (use, random healing based on your anatomy skill, penalized by damage taken during waiting time) allowed for movement while healing. Potions were faster but obviously extremly expensive compared to vendor bandages. Magic was limited since you had to stand still for the pre-casting and for gr. heals by mana.

It might help to think about this in different tiers.

1. tier would be slow healing without being able to move.
2. tier fast healing without being able to move
3. tier slow healing while moving
4. fast healing while moving

Ideally I think this would translate like this:

1. Resting (no cost, reserve regain, 30 seconds)
2. bandage (it should take at least 8 seconds to go from 1 to 100% - probably more)
3. healing over time potion/ pat wins bandage suggestion
4. potion/magic

This would increase the need for potions and magic when kiting heavily. Making it less viable. If you have your timings magic will be outclassed by bandages, which would be odd.

 

[PatWins]

I've seen a fair amount of feedback regarding healing over time on bandages. I personally feel that healing over time would make 1 v X more difficult and might end up being frustrating.

 

[Phen]

My personal suggestion to bandages.
Not in any decent order but here it is..

• Multiple bandages ( 3 different kinda, with 3 levels for each bandage. channeling, HoT, and direct healing. )
• Each bandage has a way to us them. Canneling(Stiches) must stand still for 8 seconds with max (100%) usage of Anatomy bonus. HoT (wool wraps) can be used when moving, using 60% of Anatomy bonus. Direct healing (Carterizer) can be used while moving, using 25% Anatomy bonus.
• All bandages must be used out of combat.
• Magical / Potion heals are reduced by 30% when player is using a bandage.
• Player can assist in Channelling bandages reducing their healing effectiveness by 25%. ( Meaning a person can channel their teammate to help them heal them quicker.)
• All bandage types have a minimum heal amount, extra bonuse healing come from Anatomy and Intelligence (Intelligence only effecting minimum heals).
• Bandages can by applied to pets.
• Each type of bandage has a cooldown accordingly to its healing amount. ( Channeling being the largest(9sec), HoT(6sec) then direct heal(4sec). )
• Heals while moving will have a random roll amount based on how much movement your doing. ( The more keys pressed before heal is applied the lower chance you will have for higher heals.)
• All heals have a 2sec application period, contact hit or pushed during this time will stop healing action.
• Each bandage would have its own animation, simplest i came up with, Direct healing: pulling out a hot knife and using it. HoT: starts wrapping a bandage around arm or leg. Channel: kneels down with needle and thread. ( Could also remove random armor peice to add some risk.)

-Phen

 

[Eldrath]

I've seen a fair amount of feedback regarding healing over time on bandages. I personally feel that healing over time would make 1 v X more difficult and might end up being frustrating.

How so? I mean old bandages were not instant healing and they were the lifeblood of kiting. Kiting is the only way to realistically win on roughly even playing field.

How about just renaming the old bandage to "healing salve". It sounds more reasonable, gamers know and love it, and you can make it craftable with aloe vera. Tecknique might even be able to apply it to his sensitive areas.


Edit:

Building on my tier idea.

1. sleeping (as in MO1)
2. resting
3. Healing salve/wool cover (works the same as Mo1 bandage)
4. Potions/Magic

Bandages could have a place where they make sense, to counter bleeding effects. Not sure we want those outside of PvE though. Could be cool for certain (non-tameable and non-dominatable) enemies. Then every materials has a niche.

snip

While I prefer my solution for player I would love a system like that for pets with the vet skill. Making treating your pet a more involved decision can only benefit balance overall.

 

[Dracu]

I liked how they worked in mo1. Yes it was a bit odd etc but it never stopped you from fighting which i liked. You threw in a bandage and back to fight or wait it out for better healing. Iam not against the new implementation. Lets test it out and see how it holds up.

To be fair a sheate weapon and channeling animation might nerf bandaging in a good way....like no endless kiting sheate weapon to jump over something throw in bandage keep combat sprinting might be gone... you know what the new version sounds pretty good

 

[MolagAmur]

Is the heal of the bandage a burst heal at the end of the channel? Or is it a tick heal each second? If its a burst heal at the end of the channel...its going to be very annoying. If the channel can be cancelled early to get X amount of health then it would be okay. Imagine getting corrupted at the 5 second mark while you're channeling a bandage. I feel like mages would also lose any viability of using them in a team fight.

6 seconds is a LONG time. Lets not butcher the 1vX capability of MO2 please. MO used to be one of the very few MMOs where its not all a numbers game.

 

[Rolufe]

What have i done!? When i brought up changes to bandages, i didnt think something this complicated...

I was looking to reduce healing a little and also make healing more realistic. A bandage dont really do anything except helping to seal and keep the wound from getting infected.

I figured if anything it would stop bleed effects. Maybe if you want some extra effects. You could combine it with aloevera or some salve or something to add a little healing over time at best. I also just went with the assumption that SV would add animations for bandages and potions as Henrik says hes aiming for AAA game.

 

[Teknique]

Is the heal of the bandage a burst heal at the end of the channel? Or is it a tick heal each second? If its a burst heal at the end of the channel...its going to be very annoying. If the channel can be cancelled early to get X amount of health then it would be okay. Imagine getting corrupted at the 5 second mark while you're channeling a bandage. I feel like mages would also lose any viability of using them in a team fight.

6 seconds is a LONG time. Lets not butcher the 1vX capability of MO2 please. MO used to be one of the very few MMOs where its not all a numbers game.

Eldrath is on to something, just rename it so it makes sense and keep the mechanic the same as mo 1

 

[KermyWormy]

I'd be on board with changing them to an interruptible channel while "applying" the bandage. Moving while doing so drags it out longer but is still possible so kiting is still effective, but you actually need to create the distance needed to get off the whole duration heal from it, so skill plays a part. Would like it to be an animation so it's clear from the opponents prospective that you're applying a bandage, gives a brief window to try to interrupt etc. Length of time it takes for the different channels and amount of healing and cooldown I don't have an opinion on, short enough to useful, long enough to not be a spam-able thing.

I'd also suggest as an idea to kick around that maybe change healing pots this time around so they are primarily a heal over time benefit would be a good change. Taking someone down to the redline just to have them pop a big potion and instantly go back to full is kinda lame imo. Plus with the way things have changed making it generally easier for most people to parry attacks, I think limiting burst healing as much as possible would be a beneficial goal to have for the new game. Extending the Time-To-Kill in my opinion favors zergs and low skill gameplay making your mistakes matter less. If you need to create space and avoid damage to heal yourself, I think that favors skillful play more.

I only mention the potion suggestion because I think it ties in with the mechanics of healing and with the bandage question at hand. I think a good goal for the healing in the game would be to limit burst healing in general, and hand that unique benefit to mages.

Then we'd have

Sleeping/Resting-long duration, no items required, not suitable for combat
Bandages- med to short duration, needs cheap craftable item, can use in a combat situation but to get full benefits need a little time and "space" to use
HoT Potions- can use instantly, but healing comes in over time, more rare craftable item, used in combat but won't give you a "2nd health bar" instantly
Healing spells- only real burst heal, requires a mage.

 

[PatWins]

I'd be on board with changing them to an interruptible channel while "applying" the bandage. Moving while doing so drags it out longer but is still possible so kiting is still effective, but you actually need to create the distance needed to get off the whole duration heal from it, so skill plays a part. Would like it to be an animation so it's clear from the opponents prospective that you're applying a bandage, gives a brief window to try to interrupt etc. Length of time it takes for the different channels and amount of healing and cooldown I don't have an opinion on, short enough to useful, long enough to not be a spam-able thing.

I'd also suggest as an idea to kick around that maybe change healing pots this time around so they are primarily a heal over time benefit would be a good change. Taking someone down to the redline just to have them pop a big potion and instantly go back to full is kinda lame imo. Plus with the way things have changed making it generally easier for most people to parry attacks, I think limiting burst healing as much as possible would be a beneficial goal to have for the new game. Extending the Time-To-Kill in my opinion favors zergs and low skill gameplay making your mistakes matter less. If you need to create space and avoid damage to heal yourself, I think that favors skillful play more.

I only mention the potion suggestion because I think it ties in with the mechanics of healing and with the bandage question at hand. I think a good goal for the healing in the game would be to limit burst healing in general, and hand that unique benefit to mages.

Then we'd have

Sleeping/Resting-long duration, no items required, not suitable for combat
Bandages- med to short duration, needs cheap craftable item, can use in a combat situation but to get full benefits need a little time and "space" to use
HoT Potions- can use instantly, but healing comes in over time, more rare craftable item, used in combat but won't give you a "2nd health bar" instantly
Healing spells- only real burst heal, requires a mage.

I agree with all points here. Especially the part about increasing the value of mages by giving them the only burst heals.

 

[Phen]

I just figured we are looking to improve the game with a function that is highly used. Could easily remove the tiers to my suggestion and keeping just 3 different bandages. Which all of these would be combinations not craftable so anyone could make them.

With low healing values in my suggestion. Max heal with channel being around 40-60 ( with 2 teams help would be up to 150), would also give pure healers a class of their own, the medics. I agree @Eldrath, just using more types of bandages could create more roles. A pure vet medic role would be awesome to see on the battle!

Figured I would suggest a complete upgrade not just a tuning. If I had the choice, no bandages, action skill channel heal called meditation or thursars get war rage that is a boost life overtime ( or until you move) with a healthy cooldown of like 30 seconds. Then all other heals land on mages, priests ( with limited heals per day) , normal rest and bed/camp rest.

 

[Rolufe]

I'd be on board with changing them to an interruptible channel while "applying" the bandage. Moving while doing so drags it out longer but is still possible so kiting is still effective, but you actually need to create the distance needed to get off the whole duration heal from it, so skill plays a part. Would like it to be an animation so it's clear from the opponents prospective that you're applying a bandage, gives a brief window to try to interrupt etc. Length of time it takes for the different channels and amount of healing and cooldown I don't have an opinion on, short enough to useful, long enough to not be a spam-able thing.

I'd also suggest as an idea to kick around that maybe change healing pots this time around so they are primarily a heal over time benefit would be a good change. Taking someone down to the redline just to have them pop a big potion and instantly go back to full is kinda lame imo. Plus with the way things have changed making it generally easier for most people to parry attacks, I think limiting burst healing as much as possible would be a beneficial goal to have for the new game. Extending the Time-To-Kill in my opinion favors zergs and low skill gameplay making your mistakes matter less. If you need to create space and avoid damage to heal yourself, I think that favors skillful play more.

I only mention the potion suggestion because I think it ties in with the mechanics of healing and with the bandage question at hand. I think a good goal for the healing in the game would be to limit burst healing in general, and hand that unique benefit to mages.

Then we'd have

Sleeping/Resting-long duration, no items required, not suitable for combat
Bandages- med to short duration, needs cheap craftable item, can use in a combat situation but to get full benefits need a little time and "space" to use
HoT Potions- can use instantly, but healing comes in over time, more rare craftable item, used in combat but won't give you a "2nd health bar" instantly
Healing spells- only real burst heal, requires a mage.

Total agree on the potion thing. In MO1 Torden found out with using potions for pets. You could heal the pet to full instantly using pots as long as it was hungry. He ofc then reported it as a exploit and it was changed to heal over time. I don't see why the same wouldn't apply to the players.

I think only magic healing should be instant. This way ranged non magical attacks(bows) would be more viable. which i hope would help so bows don't need few hundred arrows to have a little impact. 20-40 arrows in quiver should be enough for a fight or that you have to use a mount or wagon to carry more arrows. Edit: Historically archers was expected to fight in melee ones their arrows was out. I don't see why it couldn't be the same here.

 

[Steinerr]

Yo i just want bandages.

Same as MO 1 but add a nice healing animation.

 

[Rulant]

With low healing values in my suggestion. Max heal with channel being around 40-60 ( with 2 teams help would be up to 150), would also give pure healers a class of their own, the medics. I agree @Eldrath, just using more types of bandages could create more roles. A pure vet medic role would be awesome to see on the battle!

Figured I would suggest a complete upgrade not just a tuning. If I had the choice, no bandages, action skill channel heal called meditation or thursars get war rage that is a boost life overtime ( or until you move) with a healthy cooldown of like 30 seconds. Then all other heals land on mages, priests ( with limited heals per day) , normal rest and bed/camp rest.

What is this DnD with sorcerers and clerics? Mages are the medics. Add healing tree that has purify/greater/lesser/some sort of HoT or whatever. Bandages should be press button, move around with weapon away, and get hp but with no rng.

 

[Rhias]

Please make it no zerk-friendly mechanic.
As soon as you need to stay out of combat for too long (e.g. standing still for 8 seconds to heal full) it will be only useable for the bigger zerk, cause he keeps the whole enemy zerk busy and prevents healing, while still having the numbers to have a few out of combat and heal.

Bandages should be useable when kiting.

Actually I don't need bandages at all. Just any way to heal up again. An increased passive regeneration that jumps in as soon as receiving no/low damage for x seconds would be fine as well. (Maybe together with a passive regeneration life pool, that takes a few minutes to refill).

 

[Phen]

Please god no.

Whats the problem with a damageless class? Makes me laugh when you may call for heals and you remember you only got bandies.

 

[MolagAmur]

Whats the problem with a damageless class? Makes me laugh when you may call for heals and you remember you only got bandies.

I was more saying that to the second part of your post. The part I underlined just made me laugh. I thought by "vet healer" you meant to heal pets though. Like having someone in your group just to heal your mounts lmao