Balance for shields and armor suggestion

Tashka

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2021
666
416
63
I think if you simply add it to armor weight and call it a day my advice to people making builds beyond that point is "don't run a shield if you use magic."
Not really. If it doesn't count towards mana regen it would make perfect sense to use shields. So you can for example either settle for just ranger armor for 50 AT, or max armor training and possibly some heavy armor training for ranger/shield, or wear paper and use shields with around 50 armor training.
 

Tashka

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2021
666
416
63
Maybe Ohgmir. Most melee builds don't have a ton of extra weight to work with if they're wearing a full set of steel. And I don't consider having multiple clades that increase your cap in a stat to be giving you something "for free".
That would be true if shield weight counted towards total equipment weight. If it's just str requirement then melees would be getting shields for free.
 

Tashka

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2021
666
416
63
Bring forth the age of the heavy carapace khurite splinted meta.
Well again it depends. If it only affects sprinting stamina and not swings/parries it would make sense for tanky frontliners to use heaviest armors.
 

Hodo

Well-known member
Mar 7, 2022
1,067
941
113
Right but hybrids in this game have to carefully manage armor weight just as much as a mage. There are some builds that just pile on the armor and give no craps but they're basically corrupt/purify only builds.

That's why I think a primary and a str req are the best way to manage it. Hybrids generally have decent strength. Hybrids are a bit primary strapped but could come up with the points if they really wanted a shield-based build.

I think if you simply add it to armor weight and call it a day my advice to people making builds beyond that point is "don't run a shield if you use magic." Which kills the many hybrid builds that should be able to use it.

Also, a battlemage isn't necessarily a hybrid. There are a lot of settings (D&D, elder scrolls etc.) where you see heavily armored mages with no melee and strong magic. I like that build being possible so long as it comes with drawbacks sufficient to not make it the only viable meta.


I play as a Hybrid, I have had a hybrid since 2009 in Mo1. It has always been a balancing act with armor and magic. But setting strength as the primary attribute for a shield pretty much gives melee fighters who are all strength builds more armor at the expense of nothing. Not like single handed weapons are as bad as they were in MO1. I mean have you been hit by a 1 handed star mace? Or 1 handed battle axe? Those things CHUNK the health away and are nearly as fast as a sword.

So with your suggestion you will oghmir foot fighters with tower shields and a 1 handed sledge hammer just rolling across the battlefield immune to all but magic damage and destroying everything in front of them. Or Veela dex fighters sprinting around with a damn tower shield and a spear or dagger weak spotting everything slower than them. All the while in the heaviest plate armor possible.

Sorry but the easiest and best way to balance that is put the shield in the armor category as it is defensive in nature in this game and thus armor. If you want to run around with a +60% piercing protection shield that weighs 5kg well you're going to have to sacrifice some of that heavy armor you're wearing to do it. Instead of running around in 26kg of steel plate, you may have to drop down to 21kg of reptile carapace plate. While that 2 handed axe user will still be able to wear that heavy armor because they are going more offensive than defensive in nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Najwalaylah

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
1,755
1,217
113
Tower shields should probably come with a 100+ STR requirement. That would lock them to dedicated fighters, or hybrids built specifically to have them such a stout/30yo/Tind-Khal, which I am entirely fine with. Would be literally impossible to stick one on an alvarin at that point without being under the strength req.

Two-handed weapons are definitely the meta still. A 30yo stout Thur/Khal with max physical attributes (fully claded for physical attributes as well) has a max armor weight of 27.13. Draconic with silk/steel (noticed I used silk to assume a slightly lighter set) is 23.85. We don't know tower shield weights yet but I'm assuming that they will exceed the 3.28kg weight that allows for given 2.45kg is what you can expect for a well-crafted heavy round shield that has good protections for a reasonable weight cost.

Also the testing I've done shows multiple downsides to having armor above a certain weight even if it is below your max armor weight. It is admittedly older testing though.

Screen Shot 2022-07-15 at 12.10.27 PM.png