Archery: STR vs DEX - A Mechanical Balance Suggestion

[ulfy]

I absolutely do not see the reason for any of this in terms of balance, really. I'm already a Veela Veela archer so I have considerable STR and high DEX. It's not like I'm a wheelchair mounted archer with 80 DEX and that that is the reason why I oppose this. This wouldn't harm my character really. I just see no need to "balance" this. I picked the higher DEX cause I like a bit more foot speed when I'm not on a mount. I didn't need "less sway" to make that choice.

You also know then, as a Veela archer, that any Thursar/Ogh/etc can hit harder than you with a bow. Why is the race with 3 clade gifts for bows/archery, one of the worst at archery?

I think part of the idea here though is to also give Dex some meaning. In its current form, it's a dump stat by most builds, and lacks the same potency as other stats. Since movement speed is pretty negligible across races, where is the value in a high dex alvarin that has a much smaller Strength ceiling?

 

[Kebek]

You also know then, as a Veela archer, that any Thursar/Ogh/etc can hit harder than you with a bow. Why is the race with 3 clade gifts for bows/archery, one of the worst at archery?

I think part of the idea here though is to also give Dex some meaning. In its current form, it's a dump stat by most builds, and lacks the same potency as other stats. Since movement speed is pretty negligible across races, where is the value in a high dex alvarin that has a much smaller Strength ceiling?

They only hit harder when they don't miss

In seriousness, they don't hit much harder (Veela have an effective STR of 114 when using bows) and since they have more STR, it makes sense they can pull bows with a bigger draw weight. The clade gifts are what make them viable despite the low natural STR.

I agree with you that the effect of DEX on movement speed should be increased. It would also be nice to actually have more weakspots with higher DEX.

 

[Nefnate]

What total derailment. People coming in with their own ideas, theories, reasons, and few actually taking the time to properly consider my own post, which this thread is about.

There is simply too much for me to try and comment on. I am disappointed in how this thread has gone - not because of agreement / disagreement, but the derailment.

My suggestion doesn't make it harder to aim while being still. It barely affects aim. It doesn't make it Thursar Online, in terms of archery it actually buffs humans and Alvarin in terms of mobility, and nerfs Oghmir and Thursar because they lose mobility at highest str bows. It doesn't remove Strength as the main requirement.

Strength is entirely central to Archery and I never once contested that fact - I said that hand-eye coordination should be covered by Dex, and for the sake of game balance, movement speed while drawing could take a hit if you are low on the dex side, because it takes concentration to move, and aim, at the same time. I am not digging through science articles to try and prove or disprove this, or why (or why not) it actually even happens.

If you want to comment on a thread, comment on the subject matter presented, don't run off on tangents about your own ideas. Make your own threads. It is the opposite of productive to get into debates in this thread about content I didn't even bring up myself.

 

[ulfy]

OP, I do generally agree with your ideas. Strength makes sense for Archery, but so does Dex. They both should play a role in how one performs at the task.

I don't expect a tiny Alvarin to hit harder than a Thursar, but how hard you hit is all that matters right now since there are no other factors between that and the players themselves. No attribute/stat affects sway, drawn movement or turncaps, arrow knocking, etc.

I personally would like to see tighter turncaps with a bow drawn, and have Dex loosen that up so they can aim faster, which aids in hitting moving targets. Same goes for strafing/movement whilst drawn. I'd also like to see Dex increase arrow knocking speed. I know some people have reservations about that increasing DPS.... but so does Strength for hard hitting weapons; I don't see the problem there.

 

[Kebek]

What total derailment. People coming in with their own ideas, theories, reasons, and few actually taking the time to properly consider my own post, which this thread is about.

There is simply too much for me to try and comment on. I am disappointed in how this thread has gone - not because of agreement / disagreement, but the derailment.

My suggestion doesn't make it harder to aim while being still. It barely affects aim. It doesn't make it Thursar Online, in terms of archery it actually buffs humans and Alvarin in terms of mobility, and nerfs Oghmir and Thursar (<<<<<<EXACTLY) because they lose mobility at highest str bows. It doesn't remove Strength as the main requirement.

Strength is entirely central to Archery and I never once contested that fact - I said that hand-eye coordination should be covered by Dex, and for the sake of game balance, movement speed while drawing could take a hit if you are low on the dex side, because it takes concentration to move, and aim, at the same time. I am not digging through science articles to try and prove or disprove this, or why (or why not) it actually even happens.

If you want to comment on a thread, comment on the subject matter presented, don't run off on tangents about your own ideas. Make your own threads. It is the opposite of productive to get into debates in this thread about content I didn't even bring up myself.

Imagine making a thread and then complaining when people reply. Yikes!

 

[Woody]

What total derailment. People coming in with their own ideas, theories, reasons, and few actually taking the time to properly consider my own post, which this thread is about.

There is simply too much for me to try and comment on. I am disappointed in how this thread has gone - not because of agreement / disagreement, but the derailment.

My suggestion doesn't make it harder to aim while being still. It barely affects aim. It doesn't make it Thursar Online, in terms of archery it actually buffs humans and Alvarin in terms of mobility, and nerfs Oghmir and Thursar because they lose mobility at highest str bows. It doesn't remove Strength as the main requirement.

Strength is entirely central to Archery and I never once contested that fact - I said that hand-eye coordination should be covered by Dex, and for the sake of game balance, movement speed while drawing could take a hit if you are low on the dex side, because it takes concentration to move, and aim, at the same time. I am not digging through science articles to try and prove or disprove this, or why (or why not) it actually even happens.

If you want to comment on a thread, comment on the subject matter presented, don't run off on tangents about your own ideas. Make your own threads. It is the opposite of productive to get into debates in this thread about content I didn't even bring up myself.

While many posts may no longer be addressing the merit of the OP, they're still addressing the fundamental problem you're trying to solve. This doesn't mean your thread has been derailed or that the posts are unconstructive and off topic.

 

[Nefnate]

While many posts may no longer be addressing the merit of the OP, they're still addressing the fundamental problem you're trying to solve. This doesn't mean your thread has been derailed or that the posts are unconstructive and off topic.

Semantics. Derailing would be relatively subjective, and as the OP I feel like that is my call to make.

 

[Woody]

It would also be nice to actually have more weakspots with higher DEX.

I was actually thinking this, perhaps it's something as easy as giving WS hits with bows more relevance. I'd argue you it's necessary to allow WS to happen across all body parts but just at a reduced proc chance (given you're attacking at ranged) so at say 75% of the base proc chance of melee. Then you still have 100 primary points worth of additional effectiveness through the marksmanship Primary Skill. This at least brings value to the Dex attribute, feels aligned with the design paradigms the game is following and has cross over with melee.

Semantics. Derailing would be relatively subjective, and as the OP I feel like that is my call to make.

No problem. Happy to continue to discuss this elsewhere if a mod feels the same.

 

[Kebek]

I feel like

Yeah, that doesn't matter in the slightest. People are discussing the topic you put forward.
You are actually the one derailing the thread right now cause people were discussing the topic and now we are discussing your feelings.
So I would highly suggest that if you have issues with the way we discuss this topic, that you stay away. We would very much prefer to talk about archery and not how you feel hurt cause you got negative feedback.