Another Reason why Players Quit

[Serverus]

In most modern sandbox games it’s just easier to be an asshole. So a bunch of kids and nerds band together in zergs to kill solo farmers and the good guilds are discouraged from playing. Players ask for help on the forums and these same kids who would never harm a fly in RL tell players there is no good guilds and PvP is to kill players. No honor. Cowards hiding behind keyboards. So this idea and fear of being ganked and losing your shit scares them off. Population drops. End of game.

Solutions

I’m honestly not sure how to stop it at this point. There should be a balance. Right now there are more PKers than ARPKers. Me personally, I could never murder a person in RL or in a video game. It’s just not my character. I rather see life flourish and relationships establish that aren’t toxic. No mechanic can support that. It’s only the quality of people who can make the culture what it is. And if the mentality is to kill everything standing you have to ask yourself is there even any point continuing if the games future is going to end with one group of sinisters who hate to see a healthy population. Something to consider.

 

[Emdash]

In most modern sandbox games it’s just easier to be an asshole. So a bunch of kids and nerds band together in zergs to kill solo farmers and the good guilds are discouraged from playing. Players ask for help on the forums and these same kids who would never harm a fly in RL tell players there is no good guilds and PvP is to kill players. No honor. Cowards hiding behind keyboards. So this idea and fear of being ganked and losing your shit scares them off. Population drops. End of game.

Solutions

I’m honestly not sure how to stop it at this point. There should be a balance. Right now there are more PKers than ARPKers. Me personally, I could never murder a person in RL or in a video game. It’s just not my character. I rather see life flourish and relationships establish that aren’t toxic. No mechanic can support that. It’s only the quality of people who can make the culture what it is. And if the mentality is to kill everything standing you have to ask yourself is there even any point continuing if the games future is going to end with one group of sinisters who hate to see a healthy population. Something to consider.

I DUNNO WHY I CHANGED haha. I feel you somehow, but like I post on every post like this: I said I wasn't coming into MO2 with any limitations; it's stressful to say you'd never kill someone. It's a 'game time decision,' and most people don't get killed, but stuff can happen.

But you even said in your own thing, it's easier to be an asshole and such, so that means there are prol more assholes, thus it is more likely you are killing an asshole. A lot of ARPK guilds I think took the L because they got trolled for being "not ARPK" or if they ever got strong enough, there is def a lean toward disorder so all of the pvp guilds could get involved.

Some people want the pop to drop, but a lot of those people have been griefed out by priest changes and general boredom. I don't think Pking is a big issue atm.

Of course there are good guilds, and good people... It's still all luv tho. Pvp is fun. I'm gonna get involved if I see something. If I get ganked or lose all my stuff, oh well! At least something is happening, and I can go see what's up. In the same way I'm gonna go see what happens, I'm gonna react how I react. I'm not afraid to die; I'm not afraid to fight. I like to stir the pot, and maybe that's the most substantial change. It's like someone puts me in a dnd game... after it slogs on for awhile, I'm like ok let's start some shit. I think the game has become so lite on PK that I feel compelled to do it sometimes.

Afaik, I am not KoS by any guild and I don't have any enemies. You can still be in the 'good' spectrum, do all sorts of stuff to help people, then be like oh I'm gonna go out and have some fun. TO ME, it's not about dominating people or winning or losing, it's just action and fun. In the rare circumstance that I get a true 1 on 1, it's really fun. As we know, I usually just let people run away if they don't wanna fight. But yea, accepting that you are both a killer and a target is part of going into MO (imo!) You are both, simultaneously, ALL THE TIME. Or all the time you aren't hanging w/ Mr Lictor.

But I'm a southie and shit is diff down here WE GO HARD THO. WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE.

 

[Serverus]

I DUNNO WHY I CHANGED haha. I feel you somehow, but like I post on every post like this: I said I wasn't coming into MO2 with any limitations; it's stressful to say you'd never kill someone. It's a 'game time decision,' and most people don't get killed, but stuff can happen.

But you even said in your own thing, it's easier to be an asshole and such, so that means there are prol more assholes, thus it is more likely you are killing an asshole. A lot of ARPK guilds I think took the L because they got trolled for being "not ARPK" or if they ever got strong enough, there is def a lean toward disorder so all of the pvp guilds could get involved.

Some people want the pop to drop, but a lot of those people have been griefed out by priest changes and general boredom. I don't think Pking is a big issue atm.

Of course there are good guilds, and good people... It's still all luv tho. Pvp is fun. I'm gonna get involved if I see something. If I get ganked or lose all my stuff, oh well! At least something is happening, and I can go see what's up. In the same way I'm gonna go see what happens, I'm gonna react how I react. I'm not afraid to die; I'm not afraid to fight. I like to stir the pot, and maybe that's the most substantial change. It's like someone puts me in a dnd game... after it slogs on for awhile, I'm like ok let's start some shit. I think the game has become so lite on PK that I feel compelled to do it sometimes.

Afaik, I am not KoS by any guild and I don't have any enemies. You can still be in the 'good' spectrum, do all sorts of stuff to help people, then be like oh I'm gonna go out and have some fun. TO ME, it's not about dominating people or winning or losing, it's just action and fun. In the rare circumstance that I get a true 1 on 1, it's really fun. As we know, I usually just let people run away if they don't wanna fight. But yea, accepting that you are both a killer and a target is part of going into MO (imo!) You are both, simultaneously, ALL THE TIME. Or all the time you aren't hanging w/ Mr Lictor.

But I'm a southie and shit is diff down here WE GO HARD THO. WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE.

I said I could never “murder” anyone. Kill is different and I think we’ve all done our fair share of killing. It’s kill or be killed right lol. But to murder an innocent and to kill an asshole are two different things. But I feel you. Thanks for your comment bro, it’s all love.

 

[Hodo]

In most modern sandbox games it’s just easier to be an asshole. So a bunch of kids and nerds band together in zergs to kill solo farmers and the good guilds are discouraged from playing. Players ask for help on the forums and these same kids who would never harm a fly in RL tell players there is no good guilds and PvP is to kill players. No honor. Cowards hiding behind keyboards. So this idea and fear of being ganked and losing your shit scares them off. Population drops. End of game.

Solutions

I’m honestly not sure how to stop it at this point. There should be a balance. Right now there are more PKers than ARPKers. Me personally, I could never murder a person in RL or in a video game. It’s just not my character. I rather see life flourish and relationships establish that aren’t toxic. No mechanic can support that. It’s only the quality of people who can make the culture what it is. And if the mentality is to kill everything standing you have to ask yourself is there even any point continuing if the games future is going to end with one group of sinisters who hate to see a healthy population. Something to consider.

The solution was already done... in both MO1 and UO.

5 murders and you are red, good by blue town privs till you drop below that 5 murder counts. Now you either buy a blue alt account to use blue towns or learn to operate out of the buggy houses and keeps, or out of Krannesh, and Gal Kor. But OMG those two places are run by red zergs and your small shitter guild of 4 or 5 try hards gets priest camped there?!?! Well sucks to be you, get good. Right kid.

 

[Emdash]

The solution was already done... in both MO1 and UO.

5 murders and you are red, good by blue town privs till you drop below that 5 murder counts. Now you either buy a blue alt account to use blue towns or learn to operate out of the buggy houses and keeps, or out of Krannesh, and Gal Kor. But OMG those two places are run by red zergs and your small shitter guild of 4 or 5 try hards gets priest camped there?!?! Well sucks to be you, get good. Right kid.

other than raw griefing, like naked respawn short sword griefing, I don't understand why they had to be locked out of towns, why couldn't they just be red and able to be pvp'd anywhere cept in town.

 

[Hodo]

other than raw griefing, like naked respawn short sword griefing, I don't understand why they had to be locked out of towns, why couldn't they just be red and able to be pvp'd anywhere cept in town.

Or perhaps due to the fact they were red certain NPCs wont work with them.. like the librarians or something like that.

 

[Belegar]

It comes with the territory I will say. And I love MO2 for it. This is the niche that is satisfied for small group of players, like me.

I do not murder blue berries and I am friendly to other neutral guilds.

I love the thrill that going out in the wild alone gives you. When I travel with my guild mates I feel safer, but not invulnerable. I want that. Conflict is forever on the horizon. Just the other day my guild and allies were confronted by a group of Empire about 150% our size. We had to flee, but in the process we lost some but they lost a lot more. It was a highlight in my MO2 career.

The ARPKs are few, but that is fun.

A true hero overcomes insurmountable odds. If you want EZ mode, this is not the game for you. MO2 is fine this way.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Henrik made this game as his ideal version of the game he loved as a kid: Ultima Online. He was one of those kids that loved to PK and you can see how this has shaped all that MO is. This game caters to player killers. There is nothing there to make it fair, and very little as far as consequences.
Or at least thats how it was envisioned. Enough people complained and quit and SV had to try and find a solution, which so far only managed to piss off both the PKers AND the non pkers.

The system they have now inst terrible, its just terribly implemented. They always over correct, always over steer in the wrong directions.
Like with the removal of red priest AND addition of guards. Like wtf are you thinking? Always over the top corrections. SV never learns.

 

[Jatix]

My thoughts on how to kill less nubs and farmers. Actually complete the standing system to be a more intelligent faction system.

Make it so that people have a faction, which doesnt punish you for killing people of the enemy faction. But, punishes you more for killing people of your own. This promotes not just killing every nub you see as a red. Because it makes being not red and only fighting your enemies for no punishment.

This obv wouldn't stop all killings but that's not the goal. Its an open pvp game, and most of us are here for the open pvp. This would just give it a bit more direction.

 

[Jatix]

Also another thing is that theres no enough places to live, and not enough places to go farm. A lot of the time reds just roam around towns trying to catch people going in and out, and check the few closest farm spots. Which just become suicide. If there were more options, players could try to farm more obscure spots and would be less likely to be found.

 

[Serverus]

My thoughts on how to kill less nubs and farmers. Actually complete the standing system to be a more intelligent faction system.

Make it so that people have a faction, which doesnt punish you for killing people of the enemy faction. But, punishes you more for killing people of your own. This promotes not just killing every nub you see as a red. Because it makes being not red and only fighting your enemies for no punishment.

This obv wouldn't stop all killings but that's not the goal. Its an open pvp game, and most of us are here for the open pvp. This would just give it a bit more direction.

I like your faction idea. It definitely puts everyone in a state of conflict which is good yet it promotes meaningful PvP. At this point if you go red it’s because you wanted to not because you had to. The only concern is will the factions be balanced or will players only join the faction where the good PvPers or zerg guilds are to be safe. That could create more grief. It has to be fleshed out. And a wipe would be needed. Especially if they made the factions clade orientated.

 

[Tashka]

So a bunch of kids and nerds band together in zergs to kill solo farmers and the good guilds are discouraged from playing. Players ask for help on the forums and these same kids who would never harm a fly in RL tell players there is no good guilds and PvP is to kill players. No honor. Cowards hiding behind keyboards.

Wow wow wow relax kid. It's only a game. Your behaviour in a computer game says nothing about you as a person. There is nothing morally wrong about being a PK. Nobody dies. It's just a playstyle. If someone is upset enough over PK to quit, they should do just that, it's ok, not all games must try to cater to everyone.

 

[Valoran]

... Your behaviour in a computer game says nothing about you as a person. ...

On the contrary, it actually speaks volumes about you.

If a player derives no pleasure from killing someone else and taking their hard earned belongings, and instead would rather help that person and grow together cooperatively, that says a lot about that person and what their values are.

Contrastingly, if a player wants absolutely nothing but to kill everyone they see and steal everything they have with complete disregard for how that affects those people, that also says a lot about that person.

Ultimately this is a sandbox game, and people are free to make the choices they will make with barely any direction given to them.


There is room in this game for both kinds of people, however one is clearly more detrimental to the game's health and overall longevity.

 

[grendel]

It is to be expected that lowtier gankers will try to blockade cities. It is rarely a big issue, unless you live in boxed in Fabernum. Clearing the line of lowtier gankers, the large map allow us ample space to farm and travel. Vigilance and stealth can shield us from most harm, unless we actively seek encounters. Sure, some dungeons and farming areas also attact player bandits. Those places are for groups. This is also why some gankers cry salt for a smaller map.

I am not sure it is correct that gankers outweigh the peaceful population. Most people I meet are peaceful and forthcoming. Especially in the wilderness. There is a lot of inter guild enmity though, but luckily I'm not into that. Honestly, I am mostly concerned that the game mechanics will make it too safe, especially in towns. In towns the worst villains can strike and the best blues can strike back, unless mechanics prevent the blues from taking their vengeance. Bounty hunting is a step in the right direction, but it is a bandaid. We need towns that are just so unsafe that both vigilantes and villains can operate.

 

[grendel]

On the contrary, it actually speaks volumes about you.

If a player derives no pleasure from killing someone else and taking their hard earned belongings, and instead would rather help that person and grow together cooperatively, that says a lot about that person and what their values are.

Contrastingly, if a player wants absolutely nothing but to kill everyone they see and steal everything they have with complete disregard for how that affects those people, that also says a lot about that person.

Ultimately this is a sandbox game, and people are free to make the choices they will make with barely any direction given to them.


There is room in this game for both kinds of people, however one is clearly more detrimental to the game's health and overall longevity.

Wow, well said.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

In most modern sandbox games it’s just easier to be an asshole. So a bunch of kids and nerds band together in zergs to kill solo farmers and the good guilds are discouraged from playing. Players ask for help on the forums and these same kids who would never harm a fly in RL tell players there is no good guilds and PvP is to kill players. No honor. Cowards hiding behind keyboards. So this idea and fear of being ganked and losing your shit scares them off. Population drops. End of game.

Solutions

I’m honestly not sure how to stop it at this point. There should be a balance. Right now there are more PKers than ARPKers. Me personally, I could never murder a person in RL or in a video game. It’s just not my character. I rather see life flourish and relationships establish that aren’t toxic. No mechanic can support that. It’s only the quality of people who can make the culture what it is. And if the mentality is to kill everything standing you have to ask yourself is there even any point continuing if the games future is going to end with one group of sinisters who hate to see a healthy population. Something to consider.

Pffffff dude did you really just mentioned murdering a person in rl and ingame on the same sentence?

Lmao mortal community sure Is AAA.

I couldnt be more against this hateful perspective about gaming, this kind of games are not for people unable to abstract anything.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

On the contrary, it actually speaks volumes about you.

If a player derives no pleasure from killing someone else and taking their hard earned belongings, and instead would rather help that person and grow together cooperatively, that says a lot about that person and what their values are.

Contrastingly, if a player wants absolutely nothing but to kill everyone they see and steal everything they have with complete disregard for how that affects those people, that also says a lot about that person.

Ultimately this is a sandbox game, and people are free to make the choices they will make with barely any direction given to them.

There is room in this game for both kinds of people, however one is clearly more detrimental to the game's health and overall longevity.

You asumming people behave ingame like in real life, and thats just the most imbecile thing i've seen in my life.
I've seen this pattern tho, in mortal theres people that call other players psychos because they killed them. Or you have to read idiotic shit like "rpks probably kick their dogs in the balls when not playing", roflmao.

I like to roleplay my characters and their evilness, some characters are good and just and others are massive bitches but not for that it means i grab a bow, mount a horse and murder people irl and steal their clothes.

Where do you people come from, dude this Is obsene to read. Such a reductive and short sighted perspective of social interaction.

 

[Serverus]

You asumming people behave ingame like in real life, and thats just the most imbecile thing i've seen in my life.
I've seen this pattern tho, in mortal theres people that call other players psychos because they killed them. Or you have to read idiotic shit like "rpks probably kick their dogs in the balls when not playing", roflmao.

I like to roleplay my characters and their evilness, some characters are good and just and others are massive bitches but not for that it means i grab a bow, mount a horse and murder people irl and steal their clothes.

Where do you people come from, dude this Is obsene to read. Such a reductive and short sighted perspective of social interaction.

I was actually speaking from my own perspective when I said I don’t PK in games because I’m not a violent person in RL. I don’t assume or expect others to do the same. You sound like you’re trying to justify yourself for PKing. Instead of leaving an articulate comment; you’re trying to slight me for my post as if I said something unintelligent. Just say you’re a pussy in RL and only RP tough in video games. Will get it then.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I was actually speaking from my own perspective when I said I don’t PK in games because I’m not a violent person in RL. I don’t assume or expect others to do the same. You sound like you’re trying to justify yourself for PKing. Instead of leaving an articulate comment; you’re trying to slight me for my post as if I said something unintelligent. Just say you’re a pussy in RL and only RP tough in video games. Will get it then.

It does not matter what you do irl on this game, this Is not the place to harrass people calling them potential murderers because they do it on a game, i find that kind of logic really retarded to say the least.

And just because of that nothing you say makes sense to me, you are bitching for the wrong reasons with even worse arguments and justifications.

 

[Emdash]

On the contrary, it actually speaks volumes about you.

There is room in this game for both kinds of people, however one is clearly more detrimental to the game's health and overall longevity.

Well the sandbox nature is propping one part up and pushing another down. Whether you are ARPK or RPK or w/e, that's your goal, to adjust the world. Both sides are equally necessary, and within reason, I don't think they are detrimental at all. It's the good v evil thing (with people deciding what they believe is good or not, or playing 'right' or not) that drives MO.

Plus, skill... there are times you could challenge yourself to kill someone who is a soft target. I was arguing w/ someone about veelas being assassins and I saw this guy head out to EQ w/ 1/4th health and it's like Even w/ guards out there, I bet I could have gotten away. Who is the guy? What guild? Dunno. Just an idea. So, yeah... the 'consequences of action' are pretty heavy sometimes, but if you think of the consequences only in relationship to the game, it'll be better.

I'm cool w/ people having fun and killing people. Gives us someone to fight without feeling bad, haha. I put a flower in the lootbag of everyone I kill