Alvarin nerf is too small and will fix none of the issues.

[Sally]

Huh? A alvarin can have up to 120 strength for bow usage. The biggest dick Thursar is 125 strength, which btw, not everyone plays, and the Thursar doesnt have armor pen. Alvarin is objectively better on this fact alone, but also with the knowledge that they have two FREE adrenaline off the rip. Do you not understand how insanely broken that is? Free volley, free spreadshot, two free snap shots, and one orb away from launching a player off of a cliff.

No you idiot; read the chart:

This is what you're complaining about.

Under the assumption that an arrow is fired every 2 seconds, that 1 strength to a bow = roughly 1 damage (which appears to be the consensus), this is what you get over the cooldown of Runner's High.

So runners high may let you get even with a thursar for 26 seconds; over the entire cooldown period (the minimum possible for runners high), this is how the damage spreads out.

So, as you can see, thursars are far superior at range, and they're quite literally melee specialists. So, this angle of attack on alvarins is just stupid when you compare it to the advantages gained by thursars in melee. I mean should i do a chart on that too, so we can really compare the differences? Because i'd be willing to bet, they're gaining more overall.

If you want to make a fair comparison, you have to compare what each race specializes in. Imagine your specialty is the bow; and you're STILL outdone in damage by the melee specialist. This is a really stupid complaint, and you should really focus on another area if you want to get alvarins nerfed.

How about the fact alvarins can just turn hiding off entirely? WHY are you not complaining about the ACTUAL broken stuff? Or the fact that the reason alvarins benefit from speed, is that the game allows mobile healing; meaning their speed can be converted to tanking.

The real problems are mobility + healing, and alvarin sight. All these other complaints are just stupid.

 

[Iloros]

No you idiot; read the chart:
View attachment 6790
This is what you're complaining about.

Under the assumption that an arrow is fired every 2 seconds, that 1 strength to a bow = roughly 1 damage (which appears to be the consensus), this is what you get over the cooldown of Runner's High.

So runners high may let you get even with a thursar for 26 seconds; over the entire cooldown period (the minimum possible for runners high), this is how the damage spreads out.

So, as you can see, thursars are far superior at range, and they're quite literally melee specialists. So, this angle of attack on alvarins is just stupid when you compare it to the advantages gained by thursars in melee. I mean should i do a chart on that too, so we can really compare the differences? Because i'd be willing to bet, they're gaining more overall.

If you want to make a fair comparison, you have to compare what each race specializes in. Imagine your specialty is the bow; and you're STILL outdone in damage by the melee specialist. This is a really stupid complaint, and you should really focus on another area if you want to get alvarins nerfed.

How about the fact alvarins can just turn hiding off entirely? WHY are you not complaining about the ACTUAL broken stuff? Or the fact that the reason alvarins benefit from speed, is that the game allows mobile healing; meaning their speed can be converted to tanking.

The real problems are mobility + healing, and alvarin sight. All these other complaints are just stupid.

Many many issues with the graph.

Wym all 76 arrows my g? How much dsmage are they doing 3 each? And the cooldown would be back up again. That graph is irrelevant TTK isnt 76 arrows lmao what an absurditx.

+5 str doesnt add 5 per arrow thats nuts???

Graph is irrelevant and unrealistic.

Arrows wouldnt even fire at the same pace because smaller str bows require less charge time and Alvarins use smaller str bows... Also abilities exist that let you spam way more arrows during armor pierce window and that extra DPS for the duration is enough to easily kill a person especially if you nerf healing.

Thursars obviously arent superior at range every archer is an Alvarin and armor pierce/them doing way more damage with bows for enough time to kill even multiple people is a big part of it.

And you are doing a calculation that isnt even right for armor pierce.

Nerfing healing would make this exact Alvarin archer build that outtrades you heavy for 30 seconds and has smaller hitbox on top an unbeatable build because how you counter it now is healing corners trying to outsustain or at least mitigate their ranged superiority not pull out a bow and shoot them when they have a smaller hitbox are faster can run away if they start losing and do more damage LOL.

Hypothetically if there was a character that did 30000 damage first hit of the fight and then 35 dmg every other hit and there was another character that did 36 dmg per hit, lets say everyone has 30000 hp, the guy doing 30000 dmg first hit is WAY stronger character that always wins, even though if we do a million hits the second character will do way more damage.

 

[Iloros]

No you idiot; read the chart:
View attachment 6790
This is what you're complaining about.

Under the assumption that an arrow is fired every 2 seconds, that 1 strength to a bow = roughly 1 damage (which appears to be the consensus), this is what you get over the cooldown of Runner's High.

So runners high may let you get even with a thursar for 26 seconds; over the entire cooldown period (the minimum possible for runners high), this is how the damage spreads out.

So, as you can see, thursars are far superior at range, and they're quite literally melee specialists. So, this angle of attack on alvarins is just stupid when you compare it to the advantages gained by thursars in melee. I mean should i do a chart on that too, so we can really compare the differences? Because i'd be willing to bet, they're gaining more overall.

If you want to make a fair comparison, you have to compare what each race specializes in. Imagine your specialty is the bow; and you're STILL outdone in damage by the melee specialist. This is a really stupid complaint, and you should really focus on another area if you want to get alvarins nerfed.

How about the fact alvarins can just turn hiding off entirely? WHY are you not complaining about the ACTUAL broken stuff? Or the fact that the reason alvarins benefit from speed, is that the game allows mobile healing; meaning their speed can be converted to tanking.

The real problems are mobility + healing, and alvarin sight. All these other complaints are just stupid.

Many many issues with the graph.

Wym all 76 arrows my g? How much dsmage are they doing 3 each? And the cooldown would be back up again. That graph is irrelevant TTK isnt 76 arrows lmao what an absurditx.

+5 str doesnt add 5 per arrow thats nuts???

Graph is irrelevant and unrealistic.

Arrows wouldnt even fire at the same pace because smaller str bows require less charge time and Alvarins use smaller str bows... Also abilities exist that let you spam way more arrows during armor pierce window and that extra DPS for the duration is enough to easily kill a person especially if you nerf healing.

Thursars obviously arent superior at range every archer is an Alvarin and armor pierce/them doing way more damage with bows for enough time to kill even multiple people is a big part of it.

And you are doing a calculation that isnt even right for armor pierce.

Nerfing healing would make this exact Alvarin archer build that outtrades you heavy for 30 seconds and has smaller hitbox on top an unbeatable build because how you counter it now is healing corners trying to outsustain or at least mitigate their ranged superiority not pull out a bow and shoot them when they have a smaller hitbox are faster can run away if they start losing and do more damage LOL.

Hypothetically if there was a character that did 30000 damage first hit of the fight and then 35 dmg every other hit and there was another character that did 36 dmg per hit, lets say everyone has 30000 hp, the guy doing 30000 dmg first hit is WAY stronger character that always wins, even though if we do a million hits the second character will do way more damage.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

No you idiot; read the chart:
View attachment 6790
This is what you're complaining about.

Under the assumption that an arrow is fired every 2 seconds, that 1 strength to a bow = roughly 1 damage (which appears to be the consensus), this is what you get over the cooldown of Runner's High.

So runners high may let you get even with a thursar for 26 seconds; over the entire cooldown period (the minimum possible for runners high), this is how the damage spreads out.

So, as you can see, thursars are far superior at range, and they're quite literally melee specialists. So, this angle of attack on alvarins is just stupid when you compare it to the advantages gained by thursars in melee. I mean should i do a chart on that too, so we can really compare the differences? Because i'd be willing to bet, they're gaining more overall.

If you want to make a fair comparison, you have to compare what each race specializes in. Imagine your specialty is the bow; and you're STILL outdone in damage by the melee specialist. This is a really stupid complaint, and you should really focus on another area if you want to get alvarins nerfed.

How about the fact alvarins can just turn hiding off entirely? WHY are you not complaining about the ACTUAL broken stuff? Or the fact that the reason alvarins benefit from speed, is that the game allows mobile healing; meaning their speed can be converted to tanking.

The real problems are mobility + healing, and alvarin sight. All these other complaints are just stupid.

Since we are going to be throwing out insults, this is how much +5 str would change, you baboon.

 

[Iloros]

Since we are going to be throwing out insults, this is how much +5 str would change, you baboon.

dude's a total joke lmao, wrong about every thing he talks about

 

[ElPerro]

So much autism in this thread

 

[Iloros]

So much autism in this thread

yeah sally making shit up on repeat

 

[Sally]

Since we are going to be throwing out insults, this is how much +5 str would change, you baboon.

Nothing you've posted in any of those screenshots goes again anything i said. Literally nothing. You absolute ape LOL

A) You've done it with the wrong values too. The wrong amount of strength; not that this matters.

B) I had 1 damage for 1 strength over 100, the rough consensus. Remember, the number isn't exact, it fluctuates. You're not going to hit the same every time; which is why i didn't use an exact range (however, this range is on the wrong amount of strength).

C) Even if i put these ranges into the chart? Thursars still do over 200 more damage per turn. You are an ape, and have, if anything, shown i'm right even more clearly LOL

In the realistic 50–60 armor range, the Strength build deals roughly 217–232 more total damage over the full cooldown cycle with these new values.

I did the chart on 5 damage, 1 damage per 1 strength; which as i said, was the rough consensus.. Here, it is 0.8 OFF 5 damage in that range. So, how much do you think NOT even 1 damage impacts the chart? Not at all, really, as you can see above.

 

[Iloros]

Nothing you've posted in any of those screenshots goes again anything i said. Literally nothing. You absolute ape LOL

A) You've done it with the wrong values too. The wrong amount of strength; not that this matters.

B) I had 1 damage for 1 strength over 100, the rough consensus. Remember, the number isn't exact, it fluctuates. You're not going to hit the same every time; which is why i didn't use an exact range (however, this range is on the wrong amount of strength).

C) Even if i put these ranges into the chart? Thursars still do over 200 more damage per turn. You are an ape, and have, if anything, shown i'm right even more clearly LOL

In the realistic 50–60 armor range, the Strength build deals roughly 217–232 more total damage over the full cooldown cycle with these new values.

I did the chart on 5 damage, 1 damage per 1 strength; which as i said, was the rough consensus.. Here, it is 0.8 OFF 5 damage in that range. So, how much do you think NOT even 1 damage impacts the chart? Not at all, really, as you can see above.

It's not the wrong amount of STR if you went max str the difference would go in his favor because it'd be smaller % wise. Noone runs 133 bows almost.

Number isnt 1 dmg per 1 str at all so do it with the right numbers for once maybe lol.

Thursars wont do 200 dmg more there is no need for people to be shooting 80 arrows and your armor pierce calculation is wrong lmao.

Doesnt account for stam hitbox speed 2 adren base attack rate etc AND has wrong values. Embarassing.


Irrelevant chart thats just wrong in numbers and then also has too many shots in a game with 10 arrow hits to kill.


Also check this out everyone is on Alvarins therefore they are OP.

And again the hypothetical that explains whs 76 arrows dont prove anything but your brain ignores because of low IQ:

In a game where everyone has 30000 HP lets say, a character that does 25000 damage first hit and then does 30 damage per hit is WAY stronger than a character that does 31 damage per hit even though the guy doing 31 damage per hit after a million hits would do almost a million damage more than the other guy.


Numbers need to be in context. I mean your calculation is wrong too but ecen if it wasnt it still means nothing because you did 80 arrows for some reason which is 80x20 minimum esp since you use maxed trinkets for some reason so eevrybody dies way before that.

 

[Sally]

It's not the wrong amount of STR if you went max str the difference would go in his favor because it'd be smaller % wise. Noone runs 133 bows almost.

Number isnt 1 dmg per 1 str at all so do it with the right numbers for once maybe lol.

Thursars wont do 200 dmg more there is no need for people to be shooting 80 arrows and your armor pierce calculation is wrong lmao.

Doesnt account for stam hitbox speed 2 adren base attack rate etc AND has wrong values. Embarassing.


Irrelevant chart thats just wrong in numbers and then also has too many shots in a game with 10 arrow hits to kill.


Also check this out everyone is on Alvarins therefore they are OP.

And again the hypothetical that explains whs 76 arrows dont prove anything but your brain ignores because of low IQ:

In a game where everyone has 30000 HP lets say, a character that does 25000 damage first hit and then does 30 damage per hit is WAY stronger than a character that does 31 damage per hit even though the guy doing 31 damage per hit after a million hits would do almost a million damage more than the other guy.


Numbers need to be in context. I mean your calculation is wrong too but ecen if it wasnt it still means nothing because you did 80 arrows for some reason which is 80x20 minimum esp since you use maxed trinkets for some reason so eevrybody dies way before that.

You clearly don't understand proportions.

If i lower the number of the arrows, nothing changes. I've explained that to you several times; it actually potentially goes AGAINST alvarin if you lower the arrows.. Why? Because their buff is in a strict timeframe. You quite literally don't want to go that way.

Finally, are alvarins oneshotting people in heavy armor with a bow, like you're presenting with your example? No.

That happens when someone HAS NO ARMOR. Which, guess what? Benefits someone with more strength, since the alvarin buff becomes less beneficial the less armor someone has on.

You're too stupid to argue with me, by far; you need to just stop embarrassing yourself at this point. As always, your argument falls apart when we bring in the numbers.

Saying "no one runs 133 almost" doesn't change what is possible. We're imagining a max strength alvarin here, by the way. Most alvarins i know don't build for max strength, but hey, you want to do that, and then suddenly the thursar doesn't do that. It doesn't work like that.

Also, the max bow a thursar can use is actually 153; if you can even make bows for that level of strength; if they had a bow made for battlecry. But I don't even need to bring that into the picture, since i've already shown thursars are just better with a bow.

Again, thursars have other gains where an alvarin ATTEMPTS to close the gap with thursar bows (but still falls short by far, as the numbers expose).

Want me to bring in the thursar melee advantages over Alvarins? Probably not.

I OFFICIALLY DECLARE MYSELF THE WINNER OF THE THREAD, AS I'VE WON ALL ARGUMENTS PRESENT HERE USING THE ACTUAL NUMBERS; FOR ANYONE INTERESTED, SIMPLY READ MY POSTS WHERE I PRESENT ALL OF THE NUMBERS. ALL THE EVIDENCE IS THERE; THIS THREAD IS OVER AND I'VE WON (EASILY).

It has to be done this way, because Iloros is stuck on a loop everytime he loses the argument; i've literally explained it countless times, i'll be stuck here forever saying the same thing over and over.

So, this thread is over, i'm the winner, the end.

 

[Iloros]

You clearly don't understand proportions.

If i lower the number of the arrows, nothing changes. I've explained that to you several times; it actually potentially goes AGAINST alvarin if you lower the arrows.. Why? Because their buff is in a strict timeframe. You quite literally don't want to go that way.

Finally, are alvarins oneshotting people in heavy armor with a bow, like you're presenting with your example? No.

That happens when someone HAS NO ARMOR. Which, guess what? Benefits someone with more strength, since the alvarin buff becomes less beneficial the less armor someone has on.

You're too stupid to argue with me, by far; you need to just stop embarrassing yourself at this point. As always, your argument falls apart when we bring in the numbers.

Saying "no one runs 133 almost" doesn't change what is possible. We're imagining a max strength alvarin here, by the way. Most alvarins i know don't build for max strength, but hey, you want to do that, and then suddenly the thursar doesn't do that. It doesn't work like that.

Also, the max bow a thursar can use is actually 153; if you can even make bows for that level of strength; if they had a bow made for battlecry. But I don't even need to bring that into the picture, since i've already shown thursars are just better with a bow.

Again, thursars have other gains where an alvarin ATTEMPTS to close the gap with thursar bows (but still falls short by far, as the numbers expose).

Want me to bring in the thursar melee advantages over Alvarins? Probably not.

I OFFICIALLY DECLARE MYSELF THE WINNER OF THE THREAD, AS I'VE WON ALL ARGUMENTS PRESENT HERE USING THE ACTUAL NUMBERS; FOR ANYONE INTERESTED, SIMPLY READ MY POSTS WHERE I PRESENT ALL OF THE NUMBERS. ALL THE EVIDENCE IS THERE; THIS THREAD IS OVER AND I'VE WON (EASILY).

It has to be done this way, because Iloros is stuck on a loop everytime he loses the argument; i've literally explained it countless times, i'll be stuck here forever saying the same thing over and over.

So, this thread is over, i'm the winner, the end.

IT does change because armor pierce as a % of uptime is much higher????? You are litearlly 60 iq bro suprise me every time with these takes. That was the whole point and you missed it.

Alvarins arent one shotting people with bows, what does that have to do with anything? the only actual one shot is eruption unless you are naked, which you always are because yo uare a coward that doesn't really play the game at all, btw alvarins are best users of eruption AND best at dodging it too.

You are reduced to spamming insults after getting embarassed lmao..
Max bow is irrelevant, that wasn't the topic, most people use 125 bows on Thursars, therees maybe 2-3 people that use 133, and it being 133 MAKES IT MORE IN MY FAVOR< because the % diff between Thursar and Alvarin reduces because both of them are also using raw str flat rings.

The difference is super low, maybe 1 dmg per arrow, and then during armor pierce alvarins do 5-10 more dmg per arrow and the TTK is low enough to where they can kill the enemy within armor pierce.

Thursars having other stuff is irrelevant, complete non factor of a point, obviously out of 4 races, 1 race wont have EVERYTHING be better. It's just overall overstat, hence everyone plays it.

Thurasr melee advantage is slight damage increase that's about it, and that wasn't the topic anwyays, make another thread about it if you want that debate, but judging from your last msg you got nothing left.

Cringe asf , grow up. You haven't been right about a thing lol

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Whats really wild is that I still hear people defending them. Some dude will just get his brains dunked in by and elf and then say, "they arent OP, the other races just need to be buffed." no man they are just OP.

Im not sure what the convo was about with bows TLDR but my new elf MA has 120 effective str for bows with no +raw strength trinkets. It also has 100 int and 117 dex.

 

[Teknique]

Whats really wild is that I still hear people defending them. Some dude will just get his brains dunked in by and elf and then say, "they arent OP, the other races just need to be buffed." no man they are just OP.

Im not sure what the convo was about with bows TLDR but my new elf MA has 120 effective str for bows with no +raw strength trinkets. It also has 100 int and 117 dex.

Can't you only get 93 str on a veela?

 

[Iloros]

Whats really wild is that I still hear people defending them. Some dude will just get his brains dunked in by and elf and then say, "they arent OP, the other races just need to be buffed." no man they are just OP.

Im not sure what the convo was about with bows TLDR but my new elf MA has 120 effective str for bows with no +raw strength trinkets. It also has 100 int and 117 dex.

All the other races needing to be buffed means by itself that they are OP. It just a play with words/guy refusing to say the obvious because of the bad stigma around it because everyone is an Alvarin.

There is a clear bias if 60-80% pop is one race that race is so blatantly OP from an objective POV however within the community the bias is so extreme people feel like its even a debate. If you were in leagues design team and you suggested a character with 80% pickrate was fine and balanced, you'd get slapped across your face by the main guy probably. It is unheard of really. 4 races and 1 is more popular than all the 3 combined.

But seriously whats with the "hey lets buff everyonr and powercreep and then balance mobs becausd they are too shot and then balanace pets because they are too shit and then nerf broken builda that emerge instead of just nerf the outlier" crew?

I mean by default buffing 3 instead of nerfing 1 is 3x the dev time, but so many more issues come from buffing 3 than nerfing 1 it wouldnt make sense. And as a general rule of any balance you wanna attack the outlier/common denominator.

If sword is overused why would you buff lets say 2h hammer to where its overall as good and used as sword but now pet and magic users cant play the gamr because 2h hammer counters them to absurdity and is also overplayed. No you just nerf the sword lol.

same with Alvarins. If you buffed Thursars to MATCH how OP Alvarins are in ways other than speed THEY WOULD MAKE ALL PVE REDUNDANT they would literally solo bosses thats how statchecky they'd have to be to co pete with Alvarins without getting nerfed and then they would obviously be the strongest in team fights by far because speed and what Alvarins do is less impactful there (still OP thats how OP they are but we are equalizing opness)

Thats what these people dont get, or take Oghmir, to makr Oghmir appealing enough to rival Alvarins in their current form in pick rate they would need to have 300 hp and pipe every 20 seconds for 75 and also regen mana but then again they would ve OP in teamfights..


so yeah just nerf Alvarins man. Dont give me some shit ass placebo Thursar buff like you gave to Humans and pretend Alvarin issue is fixed. Either give us all 25 dex/2.5% passive speed/20% stam regen or nerf Alvarins.

 

[Iloros]

Can't you only get 93 str on a veela?

Its 94/95 and they get +25 free bow str putting them at 120 bows at stout with no rings and 128 bows with rings.. They basically use same bows as anyone else while having armor pierce and smaller hitbox and infinite stam. I mean please nerf rito.

 

[Teknique]

Its 94/95 and they get +25 free bow str putting them at 120 bows at stout with no rings and 128 bows with rings.. They basically use same bows as anyone else while having armor pierce and smaller hitbox and infinite stam. I mean please nerf rito.

I thought it was +10, +10, is it effectively more?

 

[Iloros]

I thought it was +10, +10, is it effectively more?

masteries exist and givr either 5 or 6 on top, they pull 120s now man, max for Thursar is 125 and then Alvarin armor piercey and is effectively using a 150 str bow for the duration dmg wise, even 200 str vs tung+

 

[Sally]

Whats really wild is that I still hear people defending them. Some dude will just get his brains dunked in by and elf and then say, "they arent OP, the other races just need to be buffed." no man they are just OP.

Im not sure what the convo was about with bows TLDR but my new elf MA has 120 effective str for bows with no +raw strength trinkets. It also has 100 int and 117 dex.

If you're going to complain about alvarins, complain about the RIGHT THINGS.

That is the problem here. Whining about the wrong problems.

It has nothing to do with alvarin bows.

Alvarin sight, and mobile healing. THAT is the problem. You're trying to deal with a superficial problem instead of the root problem.

You nerf alvrains, you have a race nobody uses. All that needs nerfing is alvarin sight. Everything else is healing spam.

 

[Sally]

IT does change because armor pierce as a % of uptime is much higher????? You are litearlly 60 iq bro suprise me every time with these takes. That was the whole point and you missed it.

Alvarins arent one shotting people with bows, what does that have to do with anything? the only actual one shot is eruption unless you are naked, which you always are because yo uare a coward that doesn't really play the game at all, btw alvarins are best users of eruption AND best at dodging it too.

You are reduced to spamming insults after getting embarassed lmao..
Max bow is irrelevant, that wasn't the topic, most people use 125 bows on Thursars, therees maybe 2-3 people that use 133, and it being 133 MAKES IT MORE IN MY FAVOR< because the % diff between Thursar and Alvarin reduces because both of them are also using raw str flat rings.

The difference is super low, maybe 1 dmg per arrow, and then during armor pierce alvarins do 5-10 more dmg per arrow and the TTK is low enough to where they can kill the enemy within armor pierce.

Thursars having other stuff is irrelevant, complete non factor of a point, obviously out of 4 races, 1 race wont have EVERYTHING be better. It's just overall overstat, hence everyone plays it.

Thurasr melee advantage is slight damage increase that's about it, and that wasn't the topic anwyays, make another thread about it if you want that debate, but judging from your last msg you got nothing left.

Cringe asf , grow up. You haven't been right about a thing lol

Everything you said here, was wrong.

Embarrassing, seriously. When you actually compare the effort, and this slop you try to shovel.

Just keep your useless mouth shut. You literally repeat the same garbage i've corrected (with numbers) 50 times.

You don't win an argument via attrition; you can't gaslight people into tricking people you won, saying the same points i've corrected on a loop. The numbers are there, and everyone knows you're an idiot now (as if it wasn't obvious).

The end.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Can't you only get 93 str on a veela?

No. You can get up to 95 naturally with age and mastery.