He is completely out of touch and plays a naked sheevra archer or some shit and his buddy carries him. Literal schizo.
Alvarin nerf is too small and will fix none of the issues.
- Thread starter Iloros
- Start date
A) An alvarin of that strength is going to trade a lot of dex, and so runs slower; and now is substantially more vulnerable in melee combat. So at the point their bow is near the strength of a thursar, their speed advantage is massively reduced; especially since you're pretending this alvarin is using strength trinkets. So no, it isn't a big deal at all.
B) Second, they have to use their ability; which is on a very long cooldown, and compromises their escape ability. It also only works against armor.
Thursars can literally regenerate health through attacking. Have HUGE melee buffs.
Alvarins are clearly designed to be fast bow wielders; thursars are designed to be high melee damage dealers.
The strength alvarins gain from a bow, was likely scaled to match the melee advantage thursars gain from their clades. So, again, there is no advantage; it is a trade-off.
Each are better in differing scenarios. I mean, thursars are overwhelming in melee. Are we seriously going to say that alvarins range ability is not roughly even to the amount a thursar overwhelms in melee? Have you been shot by a thursar arrow?
Alvarin's bow abilities should roughly line up with a thursar's capacity to overwhelm in melee. Thursars are EXTREMELY overwhelming in melee. So much so, that their advantage in melee outweighs alvarin advantage with a bow.
With one stat, they get to dominate melee, and do more damage more consistently.
You're trying to argue for the advantages of one race, whilst ignoring the advantages of the others. Yes, if we leave out thursar's advantages, it looks bad. Add them? And suddenly you see you've overinflated things massively.
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She* and you've literally lost every single argument you've ever had with me ever. Easily too i might add. As has mortal also just lost the argument to me too.
You argue from a position as if thursars have no advantages, as soon as you introduce them, you realize the position is idiotic. Yes, alvarins are good with a bow, as thursars are good in melee. That's one of the trade-offs you idiot.
You want Alvarins to be useless at range, unable to escape, and terrible in melee. You are a complete idiot. I'm not saying this to insult you, but because it is just the truth.
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He is completely out of touch and plays a naked sheevra archer or some shit and his buddy carries him. Loteral
Their speed isnt reduced its literlaly the meta Alvarin build and it cant get TOUCHED by non alvarins LMAO.
And no they do more damage this is testable, armor piercei s a massive boost and lasts long enough to kill a guy, with no healing? It's instantly winning them a fight.
You are wrong about everything you utter it's nuts.
Another strawman, I dont't argue from that position, obviously every race has advantages, Alvarins don't have higher EVERY SINGLE STAT EVER than all the other races, that has never happened in any game.
You are strawman spamming and ignoring all the points. Alvarin with range, meta outdamages Thursars heavily with a bow, because armor pierce >>>>> 5 strength difference.
Err, yes they can be touched. What are you even talking about?
A veela with strength rings who is stout is going to get caught very easily.
"Lasts long enough to kill a guy".. Wow, very precise. Just like thursars can kill substantially faster in melee range then.
Again, it is a trade-off.
You saying i'm wrong, and you actually proving it, are two different things.
Last i checked, you don't know what a "strawman argument" is; i literally had to explain it to you infront of everyone in the nave chat.
Your argument is: Alvarins have too much of an advantage, that is the very argument i'm going against. My critique was that purposely leaving out the advantages other races gets makes the argument look strong; but when added, it shows it just isn't accurate. THAT was why i brought up advantages being left out. It was not a strawman at all, it was a critique of your argument strategy (both of you infact).
Alvarins do not out damage thursars at range. Why? Because thursars have more strength than alvarins. This benefits them both in range, and in melee.
Infact, thursar strength is so high, that even with the clade advantage alvarins have, thursars still do more bow damage.
Now, you want to talk about the armor penetration buff, which is on a 5 minute cooldown or something; i remember going over the times, even with mastery, and it was huge, you literally tried to portray it as if this buff was active at nearly all times, which was absurd.
A) It comes at the cost of losing escape utility
B) Armor penetration becomes less beneficial the worse a person's armor is, against lower armors, higher raw damage is actually more beneficial. You're trying to argue this is objectively superior. No. ONLY against very heavy armor.
So basically.. Thursars are better at killing mages at range than alvarins will ever be; and alvarins may only get a slight edge for a few seconds every 5 minutes or something. Yet, you're STILL pretending this is massively unfair; when in melee range, you'll carve through someone in armor like butter.
Clearly you don't understand that this buff is infact very limited, and comes at great cost.
Overall, you will still benefit from more damage as a thursar.
I do know what it is. You are just lying on repeat. Thursar does less damage than Alvarin with armor pierce, subsstantially less, Alvarin uses a bow with just 5 less strength than a strongest Thursar after masteries. Obviously armor pierce is better vs higher tier armors, that has 0 correlation with the Alvarin/Thursar argument, as even versus weakest pvp ready armor, armor pierce overshadows 5 str by far.
You are clueless and don't understand numbers, you do less damage as a Thursar, nobody dpses for 5 mintues with a bow and even then it'd be ultra close becuase 5 strength bow especially when you raelize you have faster draw speed, dps is pretty much the same, and then alvarin has smaller hitbox and armor peirce. It's a no contest.
They need to giga nerf Alvarins either way.
He can't get caught very easily at all, again you are completely clueless. Stout veela is literally meta Veela nad they are basically immortal to other races... Just completely wrong about everyting as I said.
I get caught on a lean veela with dex rings whilst running in a straight line, if that can happen, a stout veela has no chance.
You're talking from the perspective of the slowest moving thursar, so of course you naively think a stout veela seems fast. They aren't. ESPECIALLY if they're using strength trinkets.
WRONG.
Armor pierce gets worse the lighter the armor someone is wearing. It isn't a hard damage increase.
So, let's say it DOES go above thursar damage for those few seconds, it only does so against heavy armor, and for a very short period of time.
Meanwhile, thursars get substantial melee bonuses.
So yes, that is a trade-off.
Thursars are built to be melee fighters, which compliments their health and melee damage; alvarins are built to use bows. Which compliments their speed.
So, even despite alvarins not being able to use as good a bow as a thursar, you want to nerf them, for a buff that only works against heavy armor, and lasts a few seconds for a massive cooldown AND removes their escape potential substantially... AND they have to be stout with trinkets to even get close to thursar bows? When, let's be real, arrows aren't much of a threat to heavy armor, and so. It is a redundant advantage at best.
Meanwhile, thursars are near one-shotting people in melee. I mean, anyone who has fought with a thursar as a non-thursar knows how dangerous it feels. It is like you don't understand the massive melee advantage thursars have, and that there is a very deliberate trade-off.
You have to play thursar to your strengths. That means you might have a tough time in the open, as you're a bigger target. With your size comes a substantial melee damage increase however. Thursars are for dungeons and close-quarters. They not meant to be jogging in the open without a mount. Even in large battles, they're huge targets.
It is like if a veela gets caught in a melee range, and they get "sticky backed" or whatever they say. They 're dead.
You have to think as well, thursars have clades that feed off melee combat too; i mean, if you are caught at range, you've made a mistake. Your entire game should be avoiding that range. That means staying near something you can stand behind at all times.
Also, consider carrying a shield, as they are HIGHLY effective against archery, and massively limit their ability. I sometimes think melee players forget shields even exist.
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I was saying that for years brother, and I dunno. Gimme a sec to try something out and I will let you know how doggy it is. thur khur yea.
Literally a skill issue. Lean Veela with dex rings shouldn't be getting caught by non alvarins ever. You are either lying or zig zagging because you are 65 iq.
It's a very hard damage increase, and you literally just repeated yourself with 0 numbers or evidence. I will just refer you to my comment above I guess coz you seem to not have read it.
Thursar Ohgmir and Human do drastically less bow damage than Alvarins due to armor pierce and weakspot and the fact that they still use 120 str bows.
Alvarins got their first nerf, and there is a lot more to come. You do not get "sticky backed" for more than 1-2 hits depending on the weapon and it's super easy to parry, unless you are naked (which you always are because you are poor) it's not an issue.
Shields are not effective and nobody but oghmirs can use them and they are expensive, Thursars and Humans are too big and too low armor weight to use shields. You keep proving you know nothing of the game, becuase you are a naked sheevra getting carried by your team, not far either.
NO, it is not a hard damage increase you idiot.
The WORSE your armor, the LESS you benefit from the buff.
Not everyone is walking around in heavy armor. So, as a thursar, you are better off when shooting someone in light/medium armor.
Humans SHOULD do less bow damage, because they are adjusted for OTHER things. They're the ultimate hybrid race.
It isn't all about bow damage, stop ignoring the benefits the other races have in place of what alvarins have.
Finally, shields are highly effective; a tower shield near completely obscures the body. Yes, any race can use them, my god, SHEEVRAS run around with them at times. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. Yes, they're overweight, does it matter? That is the trade-off to be near immune to archery. Too big to use a tower shield? LOL what?? No you idiot. What are you even saying at this point?
Oh, they're expensive? Well, yes, i imagine near immunity to arrows would be expensive. But then you'd start crying about mages (which to be fair, mages are ridiculous).
Also, this last comment about being carried, is because i killed you, on my own. Easily too, whilst you were trying to run back to Tindrem, it was hilarious LOL.
Again, it being smaller increase in worse armor does not automatically equate to Thursar doing more damage in weaker armor and yes most people are in plate either way.
You literally are repeating a disproven point. Even vs weak pvp ready armor Alvarin with armor pierce does way more damage than a Thursar does with a ranged weapon. You are clueless.
Shields are not effective are too expensive for no gain restrict you massively weapon wise and dont even work on non Oghmirs.
You never killed me on your own. You are literally spam lying for propaganda on forums noone reads atp, so pathetic. Post a clip of you solo killing me Ill give you everything I own lmao. You are getting carried by your 2 MA overlords and all 3 of your builds got nerfed and will get nerfed again.
Sheevras run with them because they are in the lightest shittiest armor ever ans they use prepatch... You dont know anything about this game literally.
And it is about bow damage because of conteyt of this conversation which is nerfed healing giga buffs bows = Alvarins keep winning as by far the best bow users. 60 iq... cant track anything I have to draw things for you.