Armor pierce 15>12 will do nothing. Everyone will still run Alvarin and demolish everyone
Alvarin nerf is too small and will fix none of the issues.
- Thread starter Iloros
- Start date
Its so bad. Glad I still picked elf. Biggest nerf was to MA weakspot builds, when arent even the problem. 500 points to WS on a mount. The dagger was always the problem. Even hitting steel with max trinkets. max mastery, and good orbs I hit steel elf for 18/19 non weakspot. Devs are so clueless.
For some reason this didnt post on Wednesday. Odd
For some reason this didnt post on Wednesday. Odd
Man they barely touched Alvarins its the saddest shit ever its fun now but Im just waiting in a week or two when Alvatin murder hobo groups with 0 counterplay start 5v100ing towns coz they are unkiklable an din heavy carapace plate with potions and jadeite swords and bows or whatever.
15 to 12 is CRAZY Im hlad they nerfed them and buff khurite so at least somr ppl pick just a weaker version of Alvarin in khurite lmao
They nerfed the wrong things though. Weak spot should have been disabled on the heavy and risar dagger head. Instead we still have around 3% WS chance with these weapon heads. Their change has made marksmanship investment suck even more. Dagger veelas are still going to dumpster people with random weak spots.
The only positive change they did wasnt even because of their own thoughts. Klean came back and told them to buff Khurite dex, so they did it. Guess what Khurite Human is still dog shit, and so is Khurite Thursar.
The only positive change they did wasnt even because of their own thoughts. Klean came back and told them to buff Khurite dex, so they did it. Guess what Khurite Human is still dog shit, and so is Khurite Thursar.
Facts its so funny thaz Klean kinda just gets to point a finger like royalty and buff/nerf the thing. He got poleaxes and thursars buffed (both great changes at that tine) and then he got khurite buffed instantly played for 2 days and quit LOL
That being said weakspoz nerf for both daggers and bows is noticable Alvatin is op whatever they fo even if you removed weakspots and armor piercr snd their bonus str on bows they would be the best so obviously its a race issue. Daggers also did not need a nerf because thex are the worst weapon in general its just that Alvarins have A. best synergize with them B. absurd weakspot chance C. are op so thex make daggers op.
Daggers, bows are both weak what needed nerf is JUST Alvarin and MA.
Im sorry MA is op and obviously way better than MM and MC it abides by no mounted rules (MM 2x cast time cant usr ele cant turn, MC worse animations, cant use abilities, restricted to light weapons only) bows for no reason have same strength on foot as they do has on mount... Cmon man it got nerfed and everyone is still running MA quit being that lame, idk what you are comparing it to? A foot alvarin in steel that can be killed by nothing period and needs massive nerfs?
I say it every time... I will say it again:
The mobility of alvarins is only a problem because of healing.
The SAME thing that makes MAs too strong, is the same thing that makes alvarins too strong: healing.
Healing. Healing. Healing.
You keep begging for changes to take away anything unique between differing races, when the real problem will still be present.
You really need to be ignored at this point, because i've corrected you so many times at this point, and you still say the same things over and over.
The mobility of alvarins is only a problem because of healing.
The SAME thing that makes MAs too strong, is the same thing that makes alvarins too strong: healing.
Healing. Healing. Healing.
You keep begging for changes to take away anything unique between differing races, when the real problem will still be present.
You really need to be ignored at this point, because i've corrected you so many times at this point, and you still say the same things over and over.
Biased Alvarin main. Remove all healing from the game - congrats Alvarin archer is completely unbeatable and all ranged non all in damage gets giga buffed while meele all in damage gets giga nerfed. You don't grasp how the game works because you are not smart and your build variety is limited to extremely undergeared alvarin archer/mage. Alvarins are a massive issue any build they run is OP. Some stuff has to do with healing but not all they are not killable period and they do too much damage for how fast they are.
Attacking the person making the argument, not the argument itself. That is an invalid argument strategy.
Saying "alvarin main", or trying to insult my intelligence, after you've lost several arguments to me at this point, again, doesn't count as a valid argument.
How about you explain, in-depth, why healing isn't the problem. This will of course lead us back to the argument that i've won against you several times.
You are in full denial, I called you not smart precisely because I argued with you, rhat is not ad hominem, you gave 0 evidence or in depth explanation to your claim and claims with no evidence or arguments behind it can be dismissed which is what I did. Now explain how it's actually specifically healing and not alvarins and how it's really complicated.
Well, yes it is ad hom, because you are attacking the person, not the argument.
So, another argument to me.
Second... No evidence?
Here is your evidence, literally in the numbers:
An In-depth Mathematical Look at Why Healing is so Broken
Healing in MO2 is, by a huge margin, the most unfair and broken thing in the game; and it branches into literally every major complaint people have about the game: Mounted Archer? Alvarin mobility? Dex Mages? Oghmir's being underpowered? Alvarin majority? I could go on... All of these major...
www.mortalonline2.com
I made an entire thread exposing how massively overtuned healing is compared to any other magic.
I even put it in a little chart with pictures.
Lesser Healing: Does not have to be aimed, has a substantially lower mana cost, The HPS is higher than any DPS of any spells, by a large margin, has an extremely short cast time, can be used whilst moving, can be used whilst mounted, it is easy to attain, requires minimal skill investment.
Lesser heal, is BY FAR the best spell on the game.
Your problem with alvarins is that they can "reset" in combat. Why is that a problem? Because it effectively makes them a "dodge tank".. They can run, heal, come back.. Keep doing it over and over. Same problem as MAs. Then, when they finally have the advantage, they can stay and win the fight.
Take away spam healing, or just combat healing in general (why are people running around putting bandages on in full armor), and you fix the mobility + healing issue.
Again, nobody is threatened by a mounted archer who cannot heal their horse.
You're constantly begging to nerf alvarins, which will leave that race fundamentally pointless. It homogenizes the races, and any reason to pick alvarin will be gone.
Last time i argued about this, you said alvarins shouldn't be able to run from combat, and if they can, it should be for a short time only. Then what would be the point of playing alvarin? They would have no advantage over other races, and would just be objectively, and measurably worse.
If an alvarin ran, and then had to take a minute to sit down and recover their health. If healing had to come at the expense of ALL mobility. Guess what? No one would complain about them. Because they would lose the fight, and then have to flee the fight entirely to save their lives.
Combat healing means they become tanks, which was always the problem. Again, the SAME problem with mounted archers. Mobility + healing.
Well, yes it is ad hom, because you are attacking the person, not the argument.
So, another argument to me.
Second... No evidence?
Here is your evidence, literally in the numbers:
An In-depth Mathematical Look at Why Healing is so Broken
Healing in MO2 is, by a huge margin, the most unfair and broken thing in the game; and it branches into literally every major complaint people have about the game: Mounted Archer? Alvarin mobility? Dex Mages? Oghmir's being underpowered? Alvarin majority? I could go on... All of these major...
www.mortalonline2.com
I made an entire thread exposing how massively overtuned healing is compared to any other magic.
I even put it in a little chart with pictures.
Lesser Healing: Does not have to be aimed, has a substantially lower mana cost, The HPS is higher than any DPS of any spells, by a large margin, has an extremely short cast time, can be used whilst moving, can be used whilst mounted, it is easy to attain, requires minimal skill investment.
Lesser heal, is BY FAR the best spell on the game.
Your problem with alvarins is that they can "reset" in combat. Why is that a problem? Because it effectively makes them a "dodge tank".. They can run, heal, come back.. Keep doing it over and over. Same problem as MAs. Then, when they finally have the advantage, they can stay and win the fight.
Take away spam healing, or just combat healing in general (why are people running around putting bandages on in full armor), and you fix the mobility + healing issue.
Again, nobody is threatened by a mounted archer who cannot heal their horse.
You're constantly begging to nerf alvarins, which will leave that race fundamentally pointless. It homogenizes the races, and any reason to pick alvarin will be gone.
Last time i argued about this, you said alvarins shouldn't be able to run from combat, and if they can, it should be for a short time only. Then what would be the point of playing alvarin? They would have no advantage over other races, and would just be objectively, and measurably worse.
If an alvarin ran, and then had to take a minute to sit down and recover their health. If healing had to come at the expense of ALL mobility. Guess what? No one would complain about them. Because they would lose the fight, and then have to flee the fight entirely to save their lives.
Combat healing means they become tanks, which was always the problem. Again, the SAME problem with mounted archers. Mobility + healing.
Ad hom is attacking a person in place of an argument not just attacking a person.Well, yes it is ad hom, because you are attacking the person, not the argument.
So, another argument to me.
Second... No evidence?
Here is your evidence, literally in the numbers:
An In-depth Mathematical Look at Why Healing is so Broken
Healing in MO2 is, by a huge margin, the most unfair and broken thing in the game; and it branches into literally every major complaint people have about the game: Mounted Archer? Alvarin mobility? Dex Mages? Oghmir's being underpowered? Alvarin majority? I could go on... All of these major...
I made an entire thread exposing how massively overtuned healing is compared to any other magic.
I even put it in a little chart with pictures.
Lesser Healing: Does not have to be aimed, has a substantially lower mana cost, The HPS is higher than any DPS of any spells, by a large margin, has an extremely short cast time, can be used whilst moving, can be used whilst mounted, it is easy to attain, requires minimal skill investment.
Lesser heal, is BY FAR the best spell on the game.
Your problem with alvarins is that they can "reset" in combat. Why is that a problem? Because it effectively makes them a "dodge tank".. They can run, heal, come back.. Keep doing it over and over. Same problem as MAs. Then, when they finally have the advantage, they can stay and win the fight.
Take away spam healing, or just combat healing in general (why are people running around putting bandages on in full armor), and you fix the mobility + healing issue.
Again, nobody is threatened by a mounted archer who cannot heal their horse.
You're constantly begging to nerf alvarins, which will leave that race fundamentally pointless. It homogenizes the races, and any reason to pick alvarin will be gone.
Last time i argued about this, you said alvarins shouldn't be able to run from combat, and if they can, it should be for a short time only. Then what would be the point of playing alvarin? They would have no advantage over other races, and would just be objectively, and measurably worse.
If an alvarin ran, and then had to take a minute to sit down and recover their health. If healing had to come at the expense of ALL mobility. Guess what? No one would complain about them. Because they would lose the fight, and then have to flee the fight entirely to save their lives.
Combat healing means they become tanks, which was always the problem. Again, the SAME problem with mounted archers. Mobility + healing.
Your evidence just proves magical healing is stronger than magical damage... lol has nothing to do with Alvarins.
My problem with Alvarins arent just resets.
What you do by fixing combat healing is make alvarin archers and ambushes and alvarin sight completely undealable with. Alvarins do more damage with a bow and have a smaller hitbox nerf healing any more and what will happen is alvarin qill pop armor pierce outtrade you you wont be able to hide and reset and you will die period. They need direct nerfs as rifht now they are the strongest archers footies mages and hybrids regardless of lesser heal existing or not.
People were at least def threatened by MAs with horses in steel that statcheck you or god forbid they use a taur dof and now you hage 455 hp to go through qhile they have 210-270.
I literally never said any of those things you are making me out to be saying. You are a notorious liar and a loser.Well, yes it is ad hom, because you are attacking the person, not the argument.
So, another argument to me.
Second... No evidence?
Here is your evidence, literally in the numbers:
An In-depth Mathematical Look at Why Healing is so Broken
Healing in MO2 is, by a huge margin, the most unfair and broken thing in the game; and it branches into literally every major complaint people have about the game: Mounted Archer? Alvarin mobility? Dex Mages? Oghmir's being underpowered? Alvarin majority? I could go on... All of these major...
I made an entire thread exposing how massively overtuned healing is compared to any other magic.
I even put it in a little chart with pictures.
Lesser Healing: Does not have to be aimed, has a substantially lower mana cost, The HPS is higher than any DPS of any spells, by a large margin, has an extremely short cast time, can be used whilst moving, can be used whilst mounted, it is easy to attain, requires minimal skill investment.
Lesser heal, is BY FAR the best spell on the game.
Your problem with alvarins is that they can "reset" in combat. Why is that a problem? Because it effectively makes them a "dodge tank".. They can run, heal, come back.. Keep doing it over and over. Same problem as MAs. Then, when they finally have the advantage, they can stay and win the fight.
Take away spam healing, or just combat healing in general (why are people running around putting bandages on in full armor), and you fix the mobility + healing issue.
Again, nobody is threatened by a mounted archer who cannot heal their horse.
You're constantly begging to nerf alvarins, which will leave that race fundamentally pointless. It homogenizes the races, and any reason to pick alvarin will be gone.
Last time i argued about this, you said alvarins shouldn't be able to run from combat, and if they can, it should be for a short time only. Then what would be the point of playing alvarin? They would have no advantage over other races, and would just be objectively, and measurably worse.
If an alvarin ran, and then had to take a minute to sit down and recover their health. If healing had to come at the expense of ALL mobility. Guess what? No one would complain about them. Because they would lose the fight, and then have to flee the fight entirely to save their lives.
Combat healing means they become tanks, which was always the problem. Again, the SAME problem with mounted archers. Mobility + healing.
People would still complain about Alvarins massively ans they WOULD be the only race by far that can reset now with those changes you propose, massice nerf to non alvarin hybrids and fatmages which are already in the gutter.
MAs problem pre nerf at least havent fought them yet is dmg + defense + mobility combo not healing. MA has full capabilities of a foot archer on mount no other mounted has that. MM 2x cast time + no ele + no turninf / MC horrible animations, massively limited weaponary/ no abilities - MA? Full FA on a 500 hp 1000 speed beast...
You are wrong none of what you say was true other than healing being op which is issue of all races and magic specifically and nerfs all races. We have a clear outlier in Alvarins and they need nerfs. You are playing a super tiny character with basically max damage you can do because alvarins are allowed to do max damage wirh bows or 95% potential damage with magic alongside all the other benefits so we get this game. If Alvarins were truly nerfed to not have armor pierce and use weaker bows AND to have less int or con only THEN could I agree to your suggestion being fine.
Hp differences arenr big enough post mastery flat hp buffs and rinfs being affordable thursar kallard have like 256 alvarins get 227... thursar khurite gas like 240? Humans get even lower like 233
Again, you say a bunch of stuff that does not counter what i've said.
Healing is why mobility is strong. If alvarins could not spam heal, they would be objectively inferior in melee encounters. No running back and taking endless turns.
You want to be able to catch alvarins on a max strength thursar, which is just idiotic. You're someone who wants race homogenization, not balance AND race diversity.
You want to maintain diversity, the significance of the role a person plays, whilst also balancing. You do that via nerfing healing.
This isn't a competition first game, it is an RPG. You play a role. You play the role that is fat and slow, you should not ever be able to catch someone small and nimble.
The overwhelming strength of mobility is entirely tied to healing.
Now, archery at the moment is just stupid, again, that isn't an alvarin problem, that is an archery problem. Snap shot is just broken and puts out the highest dps by a significant margin (aside from patch aoe like firewall).
They don't need to take endless turns you never reach them they just kill you from range LOL.. you are ignoring hte point entirely, and end of the day if reaching melee poses no threat of death to them they will never be balanced. Overwhelming strength of "mobility" is tied to no gap closers no stuns no finishing moves. You could, again make healing take 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds, a guy that can just not die to you will reset in 10 minutes come back and kill you and you wont kill him and hye bro its much more nuanced than that you arent responding to any of my point you basically just repeated yourself. They beat you with bows with 0 healing because htey are the best bow users by far, they beat you with magic too. Melee wise? They have weakspots and armor pierce they kill your teammates and they inherently peel better right now due to all those factors and a mere 10% loss of combat power.
A race with such utility in another game would have like 30% less combat power at least THAN AN AVERAGE BUILD, it would be twice as weak in hp plus dmg combo vs the strongest least utility speed build.
The range issue is more to do with archery than alvarins.
I literally told SV NOT to allow snap shot as it is, and they sent it in anyway, because whoever goes on the PTR keep giving the most idiotic feedback. Just like how Death Hand went in and came out with a buff, despite being completely unfair and broken.
I'm literally fighting against idiots who are just thinking from their own anecdotal experience, as opposed to the game's ecosystem as a whole.
Like you, thinking from your position as a thursar, you hamfistedly approach the situation from that narrow view, without taking into consideration all factors.
If you nerf Alvarin speed, they, as a race, become pointless. They HAVE to have speed to justify their existence, or we may as well just have one race.
Therefore, the problem becomes not what makes the race unique, but the deeper issues that elevate those particular traits.
Snap shot is complete broken, the actual DPS that can be put out is absurdly high. It needs to be halved in damage, or it needs a substantially higher cost.
It is an archery (specifically snapshot) issue, and a healing issue. NOT an alvarin issue.
Finally, thursars put out more ranged damage overall, so i'm not sure why you're trying to argue alvarin have a ranged advantage; that armor bypass doesn't equate to superior damage overall. I remember you lied about the cooldowns to portray the alvarin clade buffs as being near perpetual, when they are far from.
You're still better off as a thursar and oghmir with a bow, when it comes to damage, than you are as an alvarin, that is just a fact.
Huh? A alvarin can have up to 120 strength for bow usage. The biggest dick Thursar is 125 strength, which btw, not everyone plays, and the Thursar doesnt have armor pen. Alvarin is objectively better on this fact alone, but also with the knowledge that they have two FREE adrenaline off the rip. Do you not understand how insanely broken that is? Free volley, free spreadshot, two free snap shots, and one orb away from launching a player off of a cliff.