Alvarin buff ?

[Konrad]

So I heard Alvarins will get some proper love this patch and here it goes:

"Increased Alvarin cladegift movement speed bonus from 0.5% to 0.75%"

That's it ? I mean it's a nice buff for them considering movement speed between all builds is almost the freaking same and there is not much difference in fights unless you chasing someone for longer time, don't think this buff will make much of a diffrence though overall. Since we are on the page of trying to buff alvarins, can we get their active clade gift for regenerating stamina work again ? I mean right now it doesn't do anything, in Alpha it worked, was quite OP true but atleast it worked and lets be honest compared to the clade gifts and OP shit other races get it was fairly ok, like thursars are back to be the best warriors, best damage, big hp, best stamina, healing, cool clade gifts overall, oghmirs are just impossible to kill slap a heavy weapon on them and they will murder everyone and basically can't die while humans are most versetile, get a free purify and sooo many free stats making basicaly every human build a psy warrior with good hp, good damage, good speed and stamina, so what do alvarins get? active buff for speed for seconds, which is actually very good for finishing people off or running away. Some speed buffs as mentioned before but not overhelming at all and aren't really that visible in fights at all, stamina regen when standing only... a very cool clade gift but not very practical considering you are a build thats meant to be moving all the time, and an active clade gift for stamina regen that doesnt do anything, +20 to bows which is great, but isn't like game breaking or anything its just 'nice' making them a little viable in archery and better at kiting on foot, but they are still worse at archery (max 110STR bows) than any other race in-game so itsnt game breaking.

I understand shit is still getting updated and fixed, im just trying to give some feedback on current 'balance' and start a conversation with others here... How are you guys feeling about the current 'metas', do you think veelas are good enough as it is, or you think as me that alvarin builds didnt get enough love as other races?

 

[Archiel]

its a step in the right direction, a very small step more like a hesitant shuffle.
Using a clade gift skill with a 10 min cooldown for balance wont help that much though.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

Sorry to rain on the Alvarin Emo-fest.

ALVARINS ARE ALREADY GREAT.

Yes, you won't win many 1v1 duels and have the highest learning curve, but you can kite endlessly and always chase down a fleeing player.

The best griefers play Alvarin because you can get the most out of their playstyle in hit-and-run pvp.

Most of you Alvarin mains just want to win 1v1 head-to-head and also have the ability to kite and chase down enemies.

This is OP and my opinion Alvarins are fastly becoming the most annoying type of player in MO2.

/thread

 

[Evelyn]

Sorry to rain on the Alvarin Emo-fest.

ALVARINS ARE ALREADY GREAT.

Yes, you won't win many 1v1 duels and have the highest learning curve, but you can kite endlessly and always chase down a fleeing player.

The best griefers play Alvarin because you can get the most out of their playstyle in hit-and-run pvp.

Most of you Alvarin mains just want to win 1v1 head-to-head and also have the ability to kite and chase down enemies.

This is OP and my opinion Alvarins are fastly becoming the most annoying type of player in MO2.

/thread

Oghmir carrying pipes, bandages, and healing potions would like to animation cancel your location.

 

[Evelyn]

To make a serious post no the Alvarin tweak this patch is not meaningful really. A couple points of movespeed makes so little difference it's not worth discussion. If the stam refill active starts to do something again it would undo some of the damage done. It doesn't need to be as insane as it was, but in its current state it is either unnoticeable or bugged.

 

[KermyWormy]

I think Alvarin are close to being ok-ish, but it is going to come down to what their final 5 clade gifts that haven't been put in yet, and what they do of course.


"stone_info"
"stoneshaper"
"PlantShaper A"
"PlantShaper B"

"spellReagent"

Only 1 of those sounds like it'd be impactful to combat scenarios, and it sounds like something that will be reagent cost related for spell casting, so it's hard to say if it'll be meaningful at all.

Who knows what the plant-shaper gifts will be, but there's 2 of them...maybe more harvested pickables and/or better milling/herbalism yields like the Oghmir extraction ones? idk.

I wouldn't mind just losing the lumberjacking and mining "rare materials message" gifts, seems lousy, does anyone even spend points on them? seems worthless to me unless those resins and cheap gems actually become useful in some kind of everyday way.

Also, they shouldn't be too afraid of making that stam regen active clade strong because the cooldown is so long, and they can keep it that way if it's strong. With such a long cooldown it should be meaningful to use it like some of the other Clades strong active gifts, and it hasn't felt that way since they nerfed it.

But overall I think they might just need to leave the movement related stuff as is because its such a fine line between being useful but not overpowered. They can focus more on the other things they've added for Alvarin which make them unique.

 

[Konrad]

Sorry to rain on the Alvarin Emo-fest.

ALVARINS ARE ALREADY GREAT.

Yes, you won't win many 1v1 duels and have the highest learning curve, but you can kite endlessly and always chase down a fleeing player.

The best griefers play Alvarin because you can get the most out of their playstyle in hit-and-run pvp.

Most of you Alvarin mains just want to win 1v1 head-to-head and also have the ability to kite and chase down enemies.

This is OP and my opinion Alvarins are fastly becoming the most annoying type of player in MO2.

/thread

yeah speed is great but its not like you have the best stamina in the game you don't thursars have better, but yeah alvarins are better kiters just because of the speed and smaller hitbox.

I never mentioned buffing them so they will become the best build for everything, yeah alvarins were and will be always best kiters, they are doing sort of fine in diving in big fights but can explode very easly which is kind of fine.
About those 1 v 1 duels... im not sure how much you dueled in MO2 but currently shit is broken, veela vs any human or thursar you have a chance as long as you parry every hit and basicaly be a better player/duelist against oghmirs its simply impossible, you might parry every hit, and constantly deal damage you still won't win because they HP, defenses and HP regen is just too strong, and yes you will die from getting damage through 'parry' and 'block' or your weapon will break. As much as this game always had importance in stats and 'skills', the main core was always the player skill, I don't care if every single other warrior build in the game has an advantage in 1v1s they always did and I played MO for years, problem is right now you just can't fight certain builds at all because its basically impossible to win.

Alvarins are in no fucking way comparable to any other warrior build out there, the only fucking perk right now for those builds is slightly higher speed, thats it. You have the least hp in the game, cant wear any full heavy armor set (except cronite LoL), least damage, smaller stamina than other warriors, smallest STR and you are always restricted to use lighter weapons.
Yes griefers use this build, but not because its OP, its because its the fastest one to run away with lol, and even griefers right now are switching to human builds because of the free purify and better hybrid capabilities.

Because of how unimpactful speed differences are right now in melee anyone who playes a role of a kiter or diver is better of switching to a full Khurite Khurite build you are almost the same speed, have 2x % damage bonus, bigger hp, better stamina, can wear any heavy armor, and use all the good human clade gifts like the purify and what not.

I don't give a damn if alvarin builds are the worse at 1v1s its fine, its not their role in the fights, the only reason I started the discusion is because right now they are not even closely comparable to any other race out there when it comes to stats or clade gifts, and even in their main role of kiting and diving are not the best anymore as human psy warrior and khurite builds are better for the job now.

Right now alvarins are only good for griefers because of the slightly better speed and because you can jump with your weapon out... YUP OP AS FUCK BOY, bloody alvarins are the worse !

 

[Evelyn]

I'd really like to suggest giving Veela (Read: Not Sheevra) a few more attribute points to make Veela melee/magic hybrids a bit more viable as a possible alternative. If you drop all of your PSY you still can't get to 90 INT without gutting your melee or health and being even weaker than every other race.

 

[Vergil]

TL;DR: Alvarin still shit. Those that deny it just never played Alvarin mage.

Veela / Veela 2 speed buff is a joke. Its nowhere near "major" buff. Sheevra? KEKW
Alvarin clade gifts are dissapointing at best, looking at other races.

And regarding to attributes - they're inferior to other races. In both caps, and values.



I'd be fine if they were high risk - high reward damage dealers with lesser hp, but right now - they hit like a wet towel.
Str cap is low. Int cap is low. Speed is still shit. Dex and weakspots - do not exist.

 

[Konrad]

TL;DR: Alvarin still shit. Those that deny it just never played Alvarin mage.

Veela / Veela 2 speed buff is a joke. Its nowhere near "major" buff. Sheevra? KEKW
Alvarin clade gifts are dissapointing at best, looking at other races.

And regarding to attributes - they're inferior to other races. In both caps, and values.



I'd be fine if they were high risk - high reward damage dealers with lesser hp, but right now - they hit like a wet towel.
Str cap is low. Int cap is low. Speed is still shit. Dex and weakspots - do not exist.

even if weakspots were a thing... it would force entire fucking 'race' to play weak spot daggers.... fuck that.

as I said for those that like playing diver/kiter characters full khurite is a better option in every way right now... it shouldnt be like this .

 

[Rhias]

@Konrad Just out of curiousity, which weapon would you like to use that requires more than 87str?
The only weapons I can think of that require that much are poleaxes and poleswords.

 

[Konrad]

@Konrad Just out of curiousity, which weapon would you like to use that requires more than 87str?
The only weapons I can think of that require that much are poleaxes and poleswords.

Myself ? im not particularly interested in the poleaxes maaaybee poleswords just because of how well those can work for the build itself to catch the runners etc, the poleaxes even if veelas would have been able to wield them wouldnt be viable for any veela build simply because those are too heavy and would drain too much stamina for characters that are basically build for light armors, kiting and mage chasing, I myself use mainly swords or spears which isnt particularly an issue for me as of right now, and I do perform quite alright I guess, Im not mad about the lower damage but if im to have the lowest dmg in the game and lowest hp in the game give us something ? lol. Issue is that I know for a fact I would perform much better with the exact same role in group fights and what not with a human build or even a thursar one, simply because of the perks those races have.
So right now the only viable option for alvarins in which you can perform better at something than other builds are weakspots, which as of right now don't seem to be working the way they should (big damage is missing and all that...)

To all those that hate on the topic etc, Do not take me wrong, this game as of right now is more balanced Races and Clades wise more than MO1 ever was, who would have thought that humans would be viable for anything other than RP LoL Oghmirs are actually very freaking good and viable in melee now, we got mages in almost all races etc, its not just Thursar warriors spam, Veela hybrids, alvarin pocket mages, and oghmir for MA and fat mages lol I'm just trying to give some feedback back to SV and have a discussion about a Race that myself and many others believe that right now is the weakest and most underpowered compared to any other build or race.

 

[Evelyn]

Another suggestion is to maybe replace one or more of the useless clade gifts with something more valuable. I can't imagine anyone is taking the clade gifts for Lumberjacking or Mining that might tell you maybe if there might maybe possibly kinda sorta but no not really be a rare resource in the node. Nobody is going to waste a clade gift so that they can know if they will get a 50 silver piece of amber out of a tree. Nor have I spoken to any Alvarin player that felt like the "see through walls" clade was particularly valuable out of extremely uncommon scenarios due to its very short duration and range.

It is my hope that SV has hard data on what clade gifts Alvarin players do and don't take and will look closely at making more competitive options rather than the current system where you just take the same ones if you can even find enough to spend 20 points on that are interesting.

 

[Konrad]

Another suggestion is to maybe replace one or more of the useless clade gifts with something more valuable. I can't imagine anyone is taking the clade gifts for Lumberjacking or Mining that might tell you maybe if there might maybe possibly kinda sorta but no not really be a rare resource in the node. Nobody is going to waste a clade gift so that they can know if they will get a 50 silver piece of amber out of a tree. Nor have I spoken to any Alvarin player that felt like the "see through walls" clade was particularly valuable out of extremely uncommon scenarios due to its very short duration and range.

It is my hope that SV has hard data on what clade gifts Alvarin players do and don't take and will look closely at making more competitive options rather than the current system where you just take the same ones if you can even find enough to spend 20 points on that are interesting.

The see through walls clade is actually pretty cool but it works for literally a second and only scenarios you would use it at are maybe dungeons ? still do duration is so short making it completely useless

 

[Piet]

To test the change I went 131 dex alverin. I can go 450 movement speed. I had a human at 424 speed run up and hit me and me start running from there to simulate escaping a sticky. Without jukes he was able to consistently get around 5 hits on me before I was out of range killing me. With jukes I was able to sometimes slightly escape with a sliver of health and only 3 hits taken consistently however it takes more stam to do so and he was able to easily out stam me and finish the job. That's not even including if the enemy had a bow.

 

[Kaemik]

Another suggestion is to maybe replace one or more of the useless clade gifts with something more valuable. I can't imagine anyone is taking the clade gifts for Lumberjacking or Mining...

Honestly would love to see crafting/gathering clades die entirely. Especially ones on the outer circle that require you to not use points on combat relevant bonuses to get them. Like, can it get any more pay-to-win alt bait than something like the human lore clade that's top tier for crafters and objectively garbage for a combat build?

 

[Tzone]

The see through walls clade is actually pretty cool but it works for literally a second and only scenarios you would use it at are maybe dungeons ? still do duration is so short making it completely useless

Would be nice if you could see ghost. Either make it last longer or make it see ghost.

 

[Konrad]

Would be nice if you could see ghost. Either make it last longer or make it see ghost.

MUCH longer duration, WAY LONGER range + this and its decent worth spending a point on, still won't balance anything

 

[Vergil]

To test the change I went 131 dex alverin. I can go 450 movement speed. I had a human at 424 speed run up and hit me and me start running from there to simulate escaping a sticky. Without jukes he was able to consistently get around 5 hits on me before I was out of range killing me. With jukes I was able to sometimes slightly escape with a sliver of health and only 3 hits taken consistently however it takes more stam to do so and he was able to easily out stam me and finish the job. That's not even including if the enemy had a bow.

Yeah, speed difference is not that big, even if number wise it may look like a lot.
That's one of the problems.

Second problem is everyone having larger or equal stamina pool.
Unless dex provide more stamina - there's no way to outrun / escape on the same terms.

 

[KermyWormy]

Yeah, speed difference is not that big, even if number wise it may look like a lot.
That's one of the problems.

Second problem is everyone having larger or equal stamina pool.
Unless dex provide more stamina - there's no way to outrun / escape on the same terms.

They could even target a dex buff to stam by making it only apply above 100 dex or something. So every point of dex above 100 would maybe add to stam at a 4x value, or even gradually scale up from 2x-4x however it'd work so you get to where a typical veela build would have the same or higher stam than whatever is top right now like 395 or something, not sure what it is currently, probably Blain by a nosehair after recent changes...if they undo their attribute total nerf anyway.

Point being, I don't think they should touch Alvarin speed too much at this point because as has been said above, it's a fine line between nice, useful, and unique speed, to becoming OP, and no clade in my opinion should have any 1 strength via attributes or clades that gives them such an absurd advantage that makes them the clear choice every time or in every situation.

So it makes sense at the moment to me that maybe the path forward for bringing Alvarin up to par resides via a stamina advantage and not game breaking speed. It also makes sense from a physical perspective because Alvarin shouldn't have much "mass" to move about because they typically are so slender, and being lithe and agile does seem to lend itself towards a longer than average "endurance" athletically speaking. The more mass and muscles you have moving around, the more energy you must expend, so all in all veela maybe ought to have top tier stam.

Connecting to this, the current wgts in game don't always bear this out....stout Oghmir do not have enough mass...and Alvarin too much imo. This may have important ramifications in the future, so maybe sorting this issue out now will save us the Oghmir only mounted meta that will come if/when mount choice is based on weight, and/or size.