Adrenaline is NOT a 'Zerg' Solution

Sally

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Dec 2, 2023
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I'm not sure why this system is being touted as some kind of counter-measure against zergs.

If you get hit more, you get more Adrenaline, and this somehow helps you counter a zerg how exactly? You'll still be closer to death than they are. If you're depending on parries to get adrenaline, you would still need to outperform multiple opponents.

Meanwhile, the opponent will not be as close to death, and will still be generating adrenaline from attacking the defender, although instead of being as concentrated as the adrenaline gain of the defender, it will be divided between the attackers.

Even though a solo player gains adrenaline quickly when attacked by many enemies, that often isn’t enough to help them survive because it is rewarding them AFTER sustaining pressure, not preemptively. Zergs can still kill a solo player in just a few seconds through raw focus fire. In many cases, the solo builds up adrenaline but dies or is wounded to the point where a win isn't possible before they can use it for any real impact. Again, it rewards players AFTER they’ve taken massive pressure, but doesn’t help them withstand or reliably escape it. The power comes too late, making adrenaline more of a consolation prize than a real counter to being outnumbered.

The real solution to 'zerging' has always been adding stealth mechanics; and when i say this, i don't mean invisibility, i mean a way to hide effectively.

You shouldn't be trying to make a system whereby people can fight toe to toe with a zerg, it'll just never realistically work. You SHOULD be making ways for people to evade them however.

I've mentioned this in other posts, but if you could simply give people a crouch whereby when active, their nameplate doesn't pop up when a cursor crosses over them. You open up the door for people to hide effectively. People could hide in a bush, behind a box. In the dark.

This is how you give people a chance against zergs; by being stealthy.

You could later tie this mechanic to the assassin skills that were mentioned in some streams. Perhaps whilst crouched, or in sneaking stance, your footsteps are silenced, and if you hit someone in the back with an attack from this stance, it could bypass armor, or have some kind of damage multiplier. Set it so you have to standstill and charge the stance before it becomes active, so people can't just crouch spam and abuse it mid combat.

Of course, it would have to be immune to veela sight if one were to be in this stance (personally, i think veela sight is extremely unfair and zerg friendly as it currently is; and needs a real counter).

But yes; this is how you deal with zergs, evasion. Your game still lacks one of the staple archtypes of the fantasy genre: the rogue.. You actually want to do something about zergs? You need to add a way to sneak; oh and THIEVERY would be nice too.

I've played this game the entire time, and i still don't have the role that i've wanted to play from the start; i honestly do not understand why you are holding back on this.. Like, fine, you are scared of adding thievery incase people don't like it? Atleast add a rogue style of play. Oh, and please don't tell me just equipping a dagger makes you a rogue; don't be absurd. Where is the stealth? What is the benefit of wearing light armor in melee range? It doesn't exist.

There is no real rogue archtype in this game, and if you want to give your solo players a real option for dealing with zergs, you should really consider adding one; because your adrenaline system isn't it.
 
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CherryKush

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Jan 25, 2022
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There is one way to make a full out stealth work because whenever I see it brought up people always say "If you have stealth then you will just have zergs of stealthed players" and this is true this is what would happen. So the fix is to make it so you are forced to pop out of stealth if 2 stealths get close to each other. What ever range that is can be up for debate but yes a stealth mechanic is the only way a solo player or very small group can have the feeling they have a chance... 100% agree with your post... (y)

Mortal is missing the Rogue
 
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Sally

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Dec 2, 2023
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There is one way to make a full out stealth work because whenever I see it brought up people always say "If you have stealth then you will just have zergs of stealthed players" and this is true this is what would happen. So the fix is to make it so you are forced to pop out of stealth if 2 stealths get close to each other. What ever range that is can be up for debate but yes a stealth mechanic is the only way a solo player or very small group can have the feeling they have a chance... 100% agree with your post... (y)

Mortal is missing the Rogue
I failed to mention a couple of things about how i'd make this specific change..

So first of all, when in sneaking stance, there would be a movement penalty. In which case, zerging in stealth would be pretty pointless, because you'd make yourself easier to detect by trying to sneak with greater numbers, and the opponent would just be able to out run you.

Second, i would tie the quietness of the movement to the type of armor being worn, so if you try to sneak in heavy armor, for example, it will still make a noise. In turn, this would force users to use lighter armor.

Now, there is one instance where a zerg could use this, and that is in ambush; if their goal was just to get the initial drop on someone. Yes, that is true, but keep in mind, with more people, there is more chance of being found out, so it does scale negatively for zergs when you have more people trying to sneak.

Is it harder to find one out of a hundred people hiding, or just one person hiding? You get the idea.

Honestly, i'd be fine with zergs being able to hide and jump people also; but i get what you're saying, perhaps it could be nerfed in some way.
 

Embuscade

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Feb 11, 2021
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L'adrénaline n'a jamais été pensée comme une solution, négative contre les zergs, elle n'a juste aucun rapport avec les zergs, à part le combat, il n'y a pas de notion d'évitement, de fuite, mais de combat, à partir de là... le sujet est hors sujet et c'est juste des pleurnicheries.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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again, the MO world already benefits sneaking IF people don't have their ini files edited. They to fix distance pop in, they need to get rid of sight thru walls skills, and they need to maybe make something that can make you SILENT when moving. There are places you should be able to sneak around and there are places you shouldn't.

Then there need to be more paths, escape routes, different heights so that you can avoid mounts by going up while they have to go around. CLIMBING is very essential. Making swimming OP again like it was with that Alv skill would be awesome, too.

It's funny because whenever there are good escape mechanics, people rage out.

The problem with a big open world where you can see people that you shouldn't see due to pop in is that it just comes down to raw speed and numbers in chase situations. Wack.
 

Jackdstripper

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Jan 8, 2021
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Not to mention that zergs have more people and can therefore hit each other to generate adrenaline as they have more healers so taking damage isnt a big deal.

The only thing that helps against zergs is the lack of stunts/slows and the ability to quickly put distance between you and the enemy. Only thing adrenaline should do is give dash and sprint like abilities. This would make it harder to finish people and its the only thing that will help smaller groups kite a larger group.
 

ElPerro

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Jun 9, 2020
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Not to mention that zergs have more people and can therefore hit each other to generate adrenaline as they have more healers so taking damage isnt a big deal.

The only thing that helps against zergs is the lack of stunts/slows and the ability to quickly put distance between you and the enemy. Only thing adrenaline should do is give dash and sprint like abilities. This would make it harder to finish people and its the only thing that will help smaller groups kite a larger group.
We already had a way for small groups to kite larger groups in MO1 but they removed kite sprinting. If they give dash and sprint adrenaline abilities, that means the zerglings can use them too and more of them.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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We already had a way for small groups to kite larger groups in MO1 but they removed kite sprinting. If they give dash and sprint adrenaline abilities, that means the zerglings can use them too and more of them.
How did they remove kite sprinting exactly?

Alpha era movement acceleration or something else?
 

ElPerro

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How did they remove kite sprinting exactly?

Alpha era movement acceleration or something else?
Seems to drain the same stam as combat mode, only that it doesnt waste stam reserves
 
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Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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Seems to drain the same stam as combat mode, only that it doesnt waste stam reserves
Oh right you mean the stamina is just completely random. Yeah I think that’s true, don’t think your stance matters.