Unfortunately it is always people with a lot of assumptions like you that haven't done any testing and just talk about something that friends have told them. First of all there are no "Diamonds" in game. The highest gem you can use is an Adamant. I do have a Tamer with 100 CC and 100 ACC and 100 Taming. Ritual Pets do not have the same damage/hitpoints, even when made out of Adamant and the best support carcass. They also lack in damage mitigation which is the most problematic. So even with the starter sword and some good parries (Terrorbird has just one attack direction for example and is very easy to parry), you shred them in pieces in no time. 400 to 600 points for Taming? You count in Animal Care? Which you also need for necro rituals or your pet levling is just extremely slow because als risen pets start at level 50. Beast Influence and Beast Mastery aren't working just to inform you. A couple of the necromancers I know (me inclusive) have created excelsheets with a lot of pages getting all the data together for gems, artifacts and carcasses. It is not that we assume something when talking about this, it comes from hard facts that we have gathered by spending a lot of gold and time. So please If you can not bring hard facts to the table keep a distance to the feedback section because it just ruins any serious written feedback.
A pretty bad developed System: Necromantic Rituals
- Thread starter Fearce
- Start date
Unfortunately it is always people with a lot of assumptions like you that haven't done any testing and just talk about something that friends have told them. First of all there are no "Diamonds" in game. The highest gem you can use is an Adamant. I do have a Tamer with 100 CC and 100 ACC and 100 Taming. Ritual Pets do not have the same damage/hitpoints, even when made out of Adamant and the best support carcass. They also lack in damage mitigation which is the most problematic. So even with the starter sword and some good parries (Terrorbird has just one attack direction for example and is very easy to parry), you shred them in pieces in no time. 400 to 600 points for Taming? You count in Animal Care? Which you also need for necro rituals or your pet levling is just extremely slow because als risen pets start at level 50. Beast Influence and Beast Mastery aren't working just to inform you. A couple of the necromancers I know (me inclusive) have created excelsheets with a lot of pages getting all the data together for gems, artifacts and carcasses. It is not that we assume something when talking about this, it comes from hard facts that we have gathered by spending a lot of gold and time. So please If you can not bring hard facts to the table keep a distance to the feedback section because it just ruins any serious written feedback.
This is the best i could do in a couple of minutes of my time. The tests are done with 100 ritual level.
1. Picture: Living one with 520 HP and 9-10 Damage
2. Picture: Risen one with 390 HP and 8-9 Damage
The living one takes 6-8 damage from the starter sword without any weapon skill. The risen one takes 13-15 damage each hit.
So the damage from the risen one is 10% lower and the damage mitigation is 50% lower. The hitpoints are also significantly lower.
I used perfect materials for the risen one (Adamant and Frost Troll) If you buy everything you have to pay around 200 Gold for one pet which is significantly weaker than the living one but also significantly more expensive.
@Herius @Robmo Can we please get some statement from your side?
1. Picture: Living one with 520 HP and 9-10 Damage
2. Picture: Risen one with 390 HP and 8-9 Damage
The living one takes 6-8 damage from the starter sword without any weapon skill. The risen one takes 13-15 damage each hit.
So the damage from the risen one is 10% lower and the damage mitigation is 50% lower. The hitpoints are also significantly lower.
I used perfect materials for the risen one (Adamant and Frost Troll) If you buy everything you have to pay around 200 Gold for one pet which is significantly weaker than the living one but also significantly more expensive.
@Herius @Robmo Can we please get some statement from your side?
Nice try little one but why the hell are both lvl 50? As a tamer you will never be able to control a lvl 125 white bear with anything else. so you are limited to way under lvl 100 with a horse. You dont have that restriction as a Ritualist. Not even to mention the HP of the tamers horse.
Although we did our testing not with white bears. Only Terrobirds, Celaenos and Trolls.
I dont know what he did behind his summoning recipies. All i was interested in, was how they performed against my tames and compare numbers. HP were lower but dmg always higher. Of course we tested highest lvl tame to acommodate a horse(around 101 to 115, depending on animal, with lvl 5 horse) against lvl 125 summons.
He did that so level would not effect the test. In the short amount of time he did that in, it was actually one of the better tests I have seen.
Where are your screenshots from your tests that necro pets hit higher damage numbers than tamed once? Damage ALWAYS higher you say?! I'm sorry but you just fit nicely in the "assumption" category because you can not even proof what you are talking about. I can show you 20 more pictures also with 125 risen white bear and 125 living one. The living one outdamages the risen one! It is just false information you spread. I always use highest support carcass and always an adamant in my rituals. You can not get any higher pets unless you use the ritual table from the necro dungeon, which is unreliable. You can not tweak the system any more because the variables are simply not there. Only stuff you can do is:
Hitpoints = Tierlevel of support carcass (Troll is highest)
Damage = Tierlevel of the gems (Adamant is highest)
Thats it! Period!
You can not adjust damage mitigation by adding some other component! You can not tweak the damage or life further by doing some weird gangnam style dance around the ritual circle.
BTW: How did you do the test: risen celiano vs tamed living celiano? And I'm also really interested in the tamed troll test you did
So show me your proofs before you make another thread or spread some false information. We do not need this in here. Lie to your mother or whatever but stop abusing this for your personal attention problems. It's the FEEDBACK section not the general chat!
You did not even understood what i said. If you test two same lvl creatures then its not a real test. As a tamer you can NEVER get a 125 pet with a horse. NEVER. But you completely ignore the fact that you can have max lvl horse and pet. And we as tamers can only have lvl 100 pets and lvl 1 horses or anything inbetween. so i have a lvl 80 bear and a 50 horse. Go and compare that to a lvl 125 risen white bear. We have tested practically but i already told you that.Where are your screenshots from your tests that necro pets hit higher damage numbers than tamed once? Damage ALWAYS higher you say?! I'm sorry but you just fit nicely in the "assumption" category because you can not even proof what you are talking about. I can show you 20 more pictures also with 125 risen white bear and 125 living one. The living one outdamages the risen one! It is just false information you spread. I always use highest support carcass and always an adamant in my rituals. You can not get any higher pets unless you use the ritual table from the necro dungeon, which is unreliable. You can not tweak the system any more because the variables are simply not there. Only stuff you can do is:
Hitpoints = Tierlevel of support carcass (Troll is highest)
Damage = Tierlevel of the gems (Adamant is highest)
Thats it! Period!
You can not adjust damage mitigation by adding some other component! You can not tweak the damage or life further by doing some weird gangnam style dance around the ritual circle.
BTW: How did you do the test: risen celiano vs tamed living celiano? And I'm also really interested in the tamed troll test you did
So show me your proofs before you make another thread or spread some false information. We do not need this in here. Lie to your mother or whatever but stop abusing this for your personal attention problems. It's the FEEDBACK section not the general chat!
You are ignoring every other fact then just the one you brought up. A not real scenario that is ever going to happen. You want a much stronger horse then a tamer. You want a much stronger pet as the tamer. and use way less primaries then a tamer. At last you then cry that tamer is so op. Is there anything else you want?
More assumptions I guess? I do not want anything stronger. This system had been advertised as some major content update together with necromancy but the development behind is so bad. It took a shit ton of money and time to get the skill to 100 and shortly after this grind you realise that there is only 2 variables that you can tweak: Damage and Hitpoints. And these two variables are either bugged or follow a simple system. If you actually want some useful pets you have to add highest support carcass and highest gems and even by adding them the pets lack in damage mitigation and can get 3 shotted by a longbow user. They promised a system where you are able to combine different pets/carcassas with each other and "craft" a variety of pets with different stats but this is not true. And instead of facing and reworking the system they keep on nerfing necro pets down to the ground because they can not handle them.
Yes you can have a horse AND a battlepet at the same time but these need to be made out of very valuable materials or they are simply trash. Plus you can not get near a city with them.
Not gonna talk about the fact that dragging a pet behind you on horseback is just terrible. I can not tell how many pets i got killed because they got stuck on the way from one town to another.
I do not use horses on my tamer when i have my pet out. I rather run around with them than having them stuck everywhere with this unreliable system.
I can totally deal with the fact that necro rituals create throw away pets. But in that case bind the level of the summoned pets to the ritual skill. So at level 100 your pets will be 125. Spending 6 hours afking to level your pets to 125 just to get them to a point where they are actually worth using them in a fight is garbage! These necro pets are way more expensive than any other pet you can buy as a tamer. The Gem alone isaround 100 gold to make them usefull. A melee can kill it with materials worth a lot less. That is not balanced.
Ok your logic is that a level 50 pet is not the same as a level 50 risen pet because you dont use a level 50 pet? That is like saying that a baseball isnt a ball because it isnt bigger.
He was using the closest two match up. You dont compare a rookie with no experience to an elite boxer do you?
Why I can allow myself a judgment?
I have invested tens of thousands of gold
that's all I need to know that it's bad.
thanks. Goodlook.
I think I am one of the most prolific crafters in MO history when it comes to making something out of nothing. That shit busts my balls that they are gating w/ bosses or cash. Boss carcs even. It makes sense, but it doesn't... I want something to figure out, not something to buy into. There is minor 'figure out' but there is too much money involved.
Like I said @ BDO Kids or @ NBA 2k balance team: can you imagine how many good people are gonna play this game, which isn't in itself a bad game, and quit because they see that there is this huge road ahead of them before they can even do something... orrr they gotta pay (lucky in BDO/2k you can just pay REAL CASH and be done w/ it heeeehhhhhhhhhhhhh.) Dudes prol RMTing to get magic cash. All this epic itemz shit drives RMT imo. FAK.
I have invested tens of thousands of gold
that's all I need to know that it's bad.
thanks. Goodlook.I think I am one of the most prolific crafters in MO history when it comes to making something out of nothing. That shit busts my balls that they are gating w/ bosses or cash. Boss carcs even. It makes sense, but it doesn't... I want something to figure out, not something to buy into. There is minor 'figure out' but there is too much money involved.
Like I said @ BDO Kids or @ NBA 2k balance team: can you imagine how many good people are gonna play this game, which isn't in itself a bad game, and quit because they see that there is this huge road ahead of them before they can even do something... orrr they gotta pay (lucky in BDO/2k you can just pay REAL CASH and be done w/ it heeeehhhhhhhhhhhhh.) Dudes prol RMTing to get magic cash. All this epic itemz shit drives RMT imo. FAK.
Why I can allow myself a judgment?
I have invested tens of thousands of gold
that's all I need to know that it's bad.
I think I am one of the most prolific crafters in MO history when it comes to making something out of nothing. That shit busts my balls that they are gating w/ bosses or cash. Boss carcs even. It makes sense, but it doesn't... I want something to figure out, not something to buy into. There is minor 'figure out' but there is too much money involved.
Like I said @ BDO Kids or @ NBA 2k balance team: can you imagine how many good people are gonna play this game, which isn't in itself a bad game, and quit because they see that there is this huge road ahead of them before they can even do something... orrr they gotta pay (lucky in BDO/2k you can just pay REAL CASH and be done w/ it heeeehhhhhhhhhhhhh.) Dudes prol RMTing to get magic cash. All this epic itemz shit drives RMT imo. FAK.
Right, it is all about figuring out stuff and that is what we totally enjoy in this universe. The system right now feels like they want to create another "taming" system. And what they came out with is an expensive pet system where you not only need to spend hundreds of gold into one pet, you ALSO need to spend time to level the pets you create. It does not make sense.
Change the perspective and imagine for a second what this system could become @Herius @Robmo
Imagine you could go out in the wild and your ritual circle is a spell you can cast and where you need wood, stone and some other ressources you can find outside of towns.
You cast the spell and create a ritual circle on the ground and you use some bush pig carcass to create your first abomination. It should not matter what carcass you use because a necromancer can turn everything into something evil. You use your first abomination to fight other creatures and from these carcassas you create new ones.
Not only would the levling be so much more enjoyable because it would bring a whole new dynamic to it and the levling process would turn into something usefull while you interact with the world. It is not about riding to a merchant buy ritual circles and spend the entire time in your house grinding the skill up. It would bring people outside of towns. It would drive more people to explore the world of nave and create more content for everybody.
For reworking this you not need much changes.
I would do it like that. The main carcass of the pet you want to create is significantly reduced and defines the way the pet looks (Bear, Terrorbird etc.). Lets say 10 or 20 per summon. In that case you can always bring a couple with you like a magic reagent. BUT you always need to add a support carcass. The only crucial design part is to get the tier levels of the different animals together and more tighter so that it not matter that much what support carcass you use. Same like a weapon crafting system. It determines health, damage and damage mitigation.
Create a spell for basic field summoning ritual circles for the necromancer school. The Level of the abomination you create is defined by your ritual level. For level 125 you need level 100 in rituals. And thats pretty much it.
The system can evolve over time. For example you could bring in special ritual tables, like the one for the tupilaks and also build a system on it when you combine carcassas with each other. There is so much you could add later on when you have a working foundation!
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Great points. Starvault needs to learn to engage (here for example) and modify their implementations. Being eternally half baked is absolutely game breaking and limiting their potential success.
Here we are, post launch, what would've been EA, approaching a monthly sub - yet our bank slots still bug, housing slots are a joke, the most expensive skill in the game is largely driving real-world-trading (with no sign of repercussions for those involved), ritual mechanics (among many others aspects of the game) are still clunky and lack intuitive elements (such as natural progression, a way to actively play the game to progress, not just afk in a house or keep with a ritual circle and shitty pets).
Or even more basic - simple quality of life things that should've been addressed over a year ago still get in the way of immersive play. Who even knows if the server can actually handle over 2k players yet, or if it ever will? For being in official launch, for them about to be asking for monthly subs - it's insane to me we have these huge gaping holes still. Or that the most fundamental QoL fixes go ignored.
Tldr; no one's asking Starvault to over promise and under deliver (which arguably is already the norm), we simply want to be heard, and for y'all to do your best past that.
Sry I get a bit macro here but to me this all ties in directly with immersion and the ideals @Fearce is illustrating above. There should be gameplay loops which make players think not, why is this game so basic? Why is this progression 2D? Why is this aspect of the game broken? And instead, gameplay loops which engage the player, send them on a fun adventure, let them explore and engage with other players vs ragequitting due to lack of QoL from rituals all the way down to the most basic problems, like, an entirely bugged top row of bank slots, disappearing items, etc.
Why are skill gains in this game so shit? My friend needs to get his spiritism up so he can res me so I don't have to walk 30 mins every time I die. Guess how much xp he gets per cast? 9xp...
100% agree. Right now the game feels like a bowl with many great ideas but none of them are thought to the end. We are getting hyped by Henriks stream about new stuff coming in but SV stopped to focus on old things that are still not working since the game went live almost a year ago. Don't get me wrong this game has huge potential but you NEED to fix things first and improve qol first before you can even think about new content. We have so many issues with the nav mesh not working in houses, the pet system is clunky and you need to worry to lose your pet when traveling on horseback and dragging it behind you. But there is also tiny changes the world and the interface needs to stop people from getting frustrated and ragequit because of the overall clunkyness of interface and interacting with your environment. There are sooooo many parts that needs to get looked into. It is not making anything better to just add new content and hope for people returning because of it.
Improve the foundation of the game first and stop scaring people away with new ToS and upcoming subscription models. I would never ever pay a subscription for this game right now even when I'm here since Mortal Online 1.
SV, you promised us to improve Mortal Online 2 and make it better than MO1. Especially when it comes to interface and qol stuff. We all trust you and followed you and paid for your game. You got the money ready in your bank, now it is time to deliver! We are still here. 1 year in, patiently waiting!
Hate to break it to you, but Taming and Domination both get 9xp per successful tic. So 4 tics per tame or 3 if your grinding. 36 total or 27 if your grinding. So 1564 taming/dom tics to go from 1 to 100.
While the gold sink is no where near as bad, same for the for the skill start. But it does suck.
By far the top three worst grinds is Scribing, Rituals, and finally Passive Regen.
That is in no order, but those are the three worst grinds in MO2.
D
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This man trying to compare AFK macro leveling taming/dominate to rituals.
I've leveled 3 tamers and 1 dom and my necro rituals are still at 91...
You can write a macro for most things in this game, even Rituals so get off it.
Second I would like to say I am not comparing I am just saying that the grind is just as bad time investment wise. Lot like you're really working that hard.
D
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Nope. Its not even close to comparable. You have a taming book and two dominate books that makes it one thousand times easier.
Where are your screenshots from your tests that necro pets hit higher damage numbers than tamed once? Damage ALWAYS higher you say?! I'm sorry but you just fit nicely in the "assumption" category because you can not even proof what you are talking about. I can show you 20 more pictures also with 125 risen white bear and 125 living one. The living one outdamages the risen one! It is just false information you spread. I always use highest support carcass and always an adamant in my rituals. You can not get any higher pets unless you use the ritual table from the necro dungeon, which is unreliable. You can not tweak the system any more because the variables are simply not there. Only stuff you can do is:
Hitpoints = Tierlevel of support carcass (Troll is highest)
Damage = Tierlevel of the gems (Adamant is highest)
Thats it! Period!
You can not adjust damage mitigation by adding some other component! You can not tweak the damage or life further by doing some weird gangnam style dance around the ritual circle.
BTW: How did you do the test: risen celiano vs tamed living celiano? And I'm also really interested in the tamed troll test you did
So show me your proofs before you make another thread or spread some false information. We do not need this in here. Lie to your mother or whatever but stop abusing this for your personal attention problems. It's the FEEDBACK section not the general chat!
wanna join Eternal? lol