250 Hour Combat Feedback

[Teknique]

but tbh, mo1 didnt had that many hackers that really went overboard with stuff like this. I encountered in my time only 2 serious hacking cases.
making it 'worse' for the whole playerbase just to make it harder for a few ppl is somewhat... not really a good decision.

That’s how I feel about the block delay. Just because some players are finding the foot jousting being nerfed too difficult doesn’t mean you should add 9000 different mechanics that hackers can abuse and ruin the game

 

[bbihah]

Yeah but what happens when you just set your block delay to 0 with cheats. May as well have it be fair from the jump and have no block delay.

that particular move holding a swing to a block could be changed but idk it’s not like thats a particular problem. That would be a random change that wasn’t in mo 1

I mean, with that kind of mindset, why even make a game at all. Because reality is there are always going to be people duping, exploiting and outright cheating. Just look at the state Tarkov is in, even with an entire company dedicated to anti-cheat, its still running rampant.

In such a small community as in mortal, it'll be enough for people to record when its happening and GMs then confirming by stalking these players to confirm. The real way to prevent it from happening in Mortal though is that people who commit these offenses actually get punished (unlike MO1) and that there are measures to keep them from coming back. The time investment you have to put into a character for it to become "competitive" pvp wise is very high compared to other games and catching cheaters, banning them and then knowing when they come back and punishing them again will keep this kind of stuff mostly away on its own. Mortal will require anti-cheat though, especially in preparation for when the population grows too big for GMs to handle.

I like the idea of one world with continents having separate servers in US,EU and Asia.

It's an old idea that I think originated from Henrik but never really came to life, maybe this time?

 

[Teknique]

I mean, with that kind of mindset, why even make a game at all. Because reality is there are always going to be people duping, exploiting and outright cheating. Just look at the state Tarkov is in, even with an entire company dedicated to anti-cheat, its still running rampant.

In a such a small community as in mortal, it'll be enough for people to record when its happening and GMs then confirming by stalking these players to confirm. The real way to prevent it from happening in Mortal though is that people who commit these offenses actually get punished (unlike MO1) and that there are measures to keep them from coming back. The time investment you have to put into a character for it to become "competitive" pvp wise is very high compared to other games and catching cheaters, banning them and then knowing when they come back and punishing them again will keep this kind of stuff mostly away on its own. Mortal will require anti-cheat though, especially in preparation for when the population grows too big for GMs to handle.



It's an old idea that I think originated from Henrik but never really came to life, maybe this time?

I don’t think you’ll be able to catch something as subtle as a block delay cheat by recording them. The usual nonsense will be said “this dude has super low ping” “it’s prediction” “my uncles cousins cat played with this dude he def legit” “ he’s just that dope”
As to why make a game at all. Avoiding intentionally adding super easy to hack mechanics does not invalidate making a game

 

[bbihah]

Except in a small community its enough for the gms to track them for a while and it is apparent enough for someone looking at it. If the delay is even something remotely close to the delay they got in mordhau it'll be super easy to distinguish even from a recording.

We should just have all characters move exactly the same speed then, since then you cant cheat with that. right?

 

[Teknique]

Except in a small community its enough for the gms to track them for a while and it is apparent enough for someone looking at it. If the delay is even something remotely close to the delay they got in mordhau it'll be super easy to distinguish even from a recording.

We should just have all characters move exactly the same speed then, since then you cant cheat with that. right?

Have you ever been an admin or a demo reviewer? It’s nearly impossible with a 3rd person view unless the person is going wayyy too fast. And with a first person view can still be difficult. It’s also extremely difficult to keep up the motivation and attention to watch a player for long periods of time. I know because I’ve had to do it. Not to mention the 4 gms are likely unqualified to really tell. Speed like you mentioned is one of the easiest things to see. But things like block delay where you would need to see their first person view and has external variables like latency, you’re literally just throwing darts blindfolded to say gms are gonna watch and catch this.

p.s it’s hard enough on a 32 player server. This community is not small. But yo ur e right about time invested In to char

 

[Kavu]

In Mordhau, even without the completely broken "ducking" its fully possible to dodge swings (even without the dodge perk) with good footwork and sprinting.

You can do that in MO, you just turn around after your escape to see the guy slashing at the air and hitting you anyway.

An alternative to a block delay would be something like how the elder scroll games(including their tab targetty mmo) handles melee combat.
Blocking is real easy, but holding a swing all the way does a heavy attack punching through the block(in TES it doesnt do any damage but rather stagger, but stuns and things like that is probably not the way to go about it in MO and MO should just have you do damage through it). This means swings need to do a bit more damage than they do now when not charged all the way and you cant hold swings past the point when it gets fully charged, upon which the attack gets released.


Which yet again brings timing into the gameplay, (which some people who apparently prefer a system where everyone just exploits the netcode instead don't like). This is a bit more attacker biased way of doing it. All someone defending can do against an attacker is run when the attacker is actually charging a full hit. In Elder scrolls you can bash the attacker, but then again. Stuns/staggers are sort of a sore spot for a game like MO.

That's all good and dandy, but even before considering the stuns you mentioned... that's not actually what heavy attacks do in ESO. Heavy attacks can be blocked perfectly fine, and very little known fact, they're actually not homing ("tab target") like ability attacks are in ESO. You do actually have to aim your heavies. Heavy attacks give the attacker stamina back on a successful hit, so it's actually in your enemies best interest to block them. Bashing them would work too, but everybody who knows how to fight is going to weave(animation cancel) it, so good luck reacting to that or even seeing it. The better option is to regularly block, feel your opponent's tempo out, and jump around like a fucking dickhead in 1 v 1 (don't do that in field fights though because returns are extremely diminished and you look like a dork).

I think you saw my gravest concern already though, which is that it creates near unavoidable hits via just charging you swings all the way. Ha imagine the estoc/bastard or the lighter clubs if you couldn't block full charges. Some kind of block breaker is needed, but it's sort of unclear what would be a good one. Several things will likely need to be tested.

 

[Kavu]

I hate idea of a block delay because it’s one more thing for hackers to set to 0

not being able to kill good players: frustrating

good players not being able to kill hackers: game destroying

I don't think the game should be designed around playing with hackers. If a hacker really wants to and all of these stats are still trusted client side, they can just set their health to 1,000,000 if they really want to, and you're not going to win anyway. The hackers you're able to kill are the ones who barely adjust anything to try to be "undetectable" hackers.

it’ll probably make it impossible to parry with high ping again too

Oh most certainly, as you won't ever know when to actually parry as they could suddenly swing at any point and land their hit because its already passed through you on their screen.

 

[bbihah]

I don't think the game should be designed around playing with hackers. If a hacker really wants to and all of these stats are still trusted client side, they can just set their health to 1,000,000 if they really want to, and you're not going to win anyway. The hackers you're able to kill are the ones who barely adjust anything to try to be "undetectable" hackers.



Oh most certainly, as you won't ever know when to actually parry as they could suddenly swing at any point and land their hit because its already passed through you on their screen.

Unless they tweak the system that is already in place. Which I assume they are already doing

To quote seb

With the current system if everyone has a ping of x everyone will see your released swing after x ms Including you.

 

[Eldrath]

The problem comes in when I see the swing release 2 meters away from me, but it still hits. Dunno what they can do about that, but it certainly looks shit.

 

[bbihah]

Just needs more work

Mortal Online: SoonTM the game