14k Gold Just to Catch a Spirit?

[Sally]

To be able to farm spirits.. You currently need 14 k gold.

14,500 gold to be specific.

Not only this, you've tied Necromancy to spiritism due to it's reliance on spirits for zombies.

This has to be one of the worst design choices i've ever seen. You literally hamstring two skillsets by doing this.

Read this very carefully :

NOT EVERYONE PLAYS IN A GUILD.

You may want them to, but they don't. The game can be played solo, it can be more fun solo. 14k for a solo, is ridiculous.

I do not want to have to depend on someone else to get spirits. I want to independently attain them. 14K is WAY WAY WAY WAY too high. JUST to be able to play a build.. It is ridiculous.

Why is it so high? Because for some naive reason, you've only given one way to get this book. Which means a group of lesser players have banded together to essentially gatekeep the dungeon. (Guilded players are by default lesser due to playing on an easier mode).

You need to free up spiritism, because i'm not paying 14k for something that isn't worth that much. I'm not ass-kissing some guild that i'm better than because they're too scared not to play as a group.

Stop rewarding your most cowardly weak players, and give your solo players (the best players) some options.

14k is not reasonable for what is a skillset that isn't worth that much. The price does not determine the worth, no. I'm sorry, no. The effort they put in to get it is minimal, and does not translate to the extortionate cost. They have no real competition, because they play in a big baby zerg. They have no challenges, they don't know the true brutality of the game. They're fakes; and they get everything. Stop it.

You should have to be good at the game to get stuff, not weak and cowardly and running with 50 people at all times.

If you're going to put some big fancy item at the end of a dungeon made for a group, you have plenty of alternatives outside of a literal skillset. How about a cape? People buy capes for extortionate prices. How about an abundance of gold or trinkets??? Not a skillset that is essential to playing other roles in the game... It is just frustrating.

I have the gold, but you think i'm letting these nobodies take 14k of my gold for what is clearly a rip off? God no. Sort out your game please, this is obvious and shouldn't even need to be said.

You control this extortion by the places you allow these items to drop. Fix it already, so we can actually play these roles outside of the cowards of the game getting their pick of everything. It is disgusting that you reward these weak people who need to band together to do anything.

They never team up on other people their size. This has left the world stagnant. All the big guilds holding hands and helping eachother, as cowards do who are too scared to take a risk. It is basically the scum of the game versus the solos. That is what it boils down to.

 

[Jackdstripper]

The only reason that book is so expensive is because spirit farming is a ridiculously easy, safe and lucrative way to farm gold. It is mind boggling that, in a game where even just walking outside of town you risk losing all your gear, you can simply go naked into the spirit world and click on floating orbs to make very good gold, while risking at most a few spirit boxes. Its almost the complete opposite of the whole philosophy of the main game. Its just insane design choice.

On top of this. They tied re-rolling trinkets (the most expensive items in game) to flux, which you can only get in the spirit world.

And all of this gatekept behind only 1 boss in 1 dungeon….Of course people are going to monopolize it.

These are terrible design choices. Just terrible.

Flux should not be a spirits-only drop. It should have a chance to drop from all hard mobs in the game. Dungeon bosses should have high chance to drop it, but also hard solo-able mobs should have a small chance of it dropping.

 

[KebekLorde]

Its called endgame loot, if you think its good idea to put the most unique items in the game just laying around in middle of anywhere where each solo player could pick them up, thats even worse idea. And even if it was the case, you still wouldnt be able to get them solo as the zergs would build their villages right at the items spots and hard camp them so that no one can get them and have to buy them from the group controlling it anyway.

Neither necromancy nor spiritism are mandatory gameplay loops in any way, if you want to use them and be fully self sufficient go and buy the items for the price or wait until the price changes [I got mine multiverse book for only 1k gold before flux was in the game for example] or even better actually get a small group and go inside the mino dungeon and kill the boss several times until you get your book, youll see how easy it is to get a competent group together to do stuff with then.

Unfortunately for you, this is an MMO with extremely heavy focus on group play and your idea that everything should be solo achievable is naive, large part of the future content that will involve new magic schools, new weapons skill or any other form of new gameplay loops that will create new classes will be tied to some kind of group activity most likely beiing ending with a dungeon boss.

And again, 14k isnt even that insane amount of gold for a competent solo player anyway, if you play the game enough to actually want an item that will consume hundreds of hours of you sitting in the ether world pressing M1 on stational spirits, you clearly have enough time to make 14k in like a few weeks at most if you know how to gold farm efficiently.

 

[Sally]

Its called endgame loot, if you think its good idea to put the most unique items in the game just laying around in middle of anywhere where each solo player could pick them up, thats even worse idea. And even if it was the case, you still wouldnt be able to get them solo as the zergs would build their villages right at the items spots and hard camp them so that no one can get them and have to buy them from the group controlling it anyway.

Neither necromancy nor spiritism are mandatory gameplay loops in any way, if you want to use them and be fully self sufficient go and buy the items for the price or wait until the price changes [I got mine multiverse book for only 1k gold before flux was in the game for example] or even better actually get a small group and go inside the mino dungeon and kill the boss several times until you get your book, youll see how easy it is to get a competent group together to do stuff with then.

Unfortunately for you, this is an MMO with extremely heavy focus on group play and your idea that everything should be solo achievable is naive, large part of the future content that will involve new magic schools, new weapons skill or any other form of new gameplay loops that will create new classes will be tied to some kind of group activity most likely beiing ending with a dungeon boss.

And again, 14k isnt even that insane amount of gold for a competent solo player anyway, if you play the game enough to actually want an item that will consume hundreds of hours of you sitting in the ether world pressing M1 on stational spirits, you clearly have enough time to make 14k in like a few weeks at most if you know how to gold farm efficiently.

Endgame loot should be trinkets. Spiritism is Not a trinket.

Spiritism COULD be essential if nobody sold spirit boxes. The fact is, i can't certainly determine if i can get spirits, which mean i can't determine if i can play my build.

THAT is the problem. There are times i'm in an area, and there are no spirit boxes on the market, and at that point i'm fucked.

I don't care that you think an MMO means group play. It doesn't. Plenty of people play MMOs just to be in a living world, not to play in a group. I'm not saying everything should be solo, but something INTEGRAL to TWO skillsets should NOT be only attainable via a dungeon that can only be ran by a group.

Also, this argument "neither skillsets are mandatory". Right, you could stand in town picking cabbages, and i could argue being able to use a sword isn't mandatory. See the problem? It isn't fun.

When it comes to skillsets, there must ALWAYS be a solo path. Skillsets are not for endgame. They are for beginning game. Endgame is for trinkets and difficult to attain materials for gear. A fundamental to two skillsets is just bad design.

Stop trying to make spiritism seem special, it really should not be. It is a terrible skillset, just as bad/good as any other magic school.

If you look at elementalism, all attainable solo. Necromancy, all attainable solo. Spiritism? Too bad. Unless there is some way to bug the boss i don't know about. Spiritism isn't more special than the others, and so does not deserve to be so difficult to attain.

It is like saying you can't use a sword until you beat the endgame boss. Does that sound like good design to you? That is an accurate analogy.

14k is too high, and i'm not paying that amount of gold for something that isn't more special than the other skillsets. You say yourself you only paid 1k, that is reasonable and easily attainable. 14k? No.

They should make it drop in a soloable dungeon. Give the Mino king some kind of trinket drop of similar value.

 

[KebekLorde]

Endgame loot should be trinkets. Spiritism is Not a trinket.

Spiritism COULD be essential if nobody sold spirit boxes. The fact is, i can't certainly determine if i can get spirits, which mean i can't determine if i can play my build.

THAT is the problem. There are times i'm in an area, and there are no spirit boxes on the market, and at that point i'm fucked.

I don't care that you think an MMO means group play. It doesn't. Plenty of people play MMOs just to be in a living world, not to play in a group. I'm not saying everything should be solo, but something INTEGRAL to TWO skillsets should NOT be only attainable via a dungeon that can only be ran by a group.

Also, this argument "neither skillsets are mandatory". Right, you could stand in town picking cabbages, and i could argue being able to use a sword isn't mandatory. See the problem? It isn't fun.

When it comes to skillsets, there must ALWAYS be a solo path. Skillsets are not for endgame. They are for beginning game. Endgame is for trinkets and difficult to attain materials for gear. A fundamental to two skillsets is just bad design.

Stop trying to make spiritism seem special, it really should not be. It is a terrible skillset, just as bad/good as any other magic school.

If you look at elementalism, all attainable solo. Necromancy, all attainable solo. Spiritism? Too bad. Unless there is some way to bug the boss i don't know about. Spiritism isn't more special than the others, and so does not deserve to be so difficult to attain.

It is like saying you can't use a sword until you beat the endgame boss. Does that sound like good design to you? That is an accurate analogy.

14k is too high, and i'm not paying that amount of gold for something that isn't more special than the other skillsets. You say yourself you only paid 1k, that is reasonable and easily attainable. 14k? No.

They should make it drop in a soloable dungeon. Give the Mino king some kind of trinket drop of similar value.

You can easily get any amount of full spirit boxes to be set for hundreds of fights anywhere on the map, literally talk to any full spiritist either ingame or make a post on official discord where you want them to deliver you the spirit boxes through ether world and as long as you offer good price for them, someone will bring them to you.

Your argue that skillsets shouldnt be part of endgame but thats only partially true, the common skill sets shouldnt be, the rare skillsets can and will be as much as you dont like it, that is the idea behind the game, some skillsets will be parts of endgame dungeons and some even rarer will be nearly unobtainable even but the big zergs such as the possible addition of demonoly or '' the chosen''system in the future. Those will be completely new gameplay styles and they will be extremely hard and rare to encouner.

Your solo way to obtain these skills is to pay up to those who actually put in the work to get these rare books, dont like it thats fine but it seems devs dont agree with your sentiment either as they still havent caved in and added a mini skillbook to unlock multiverse as they did with ritualism which also wasnt solo obtainable originally but because of the outcry over how expensive the ritualism book was on release [50k gold per the book] and that mainly happen because their design idea behind necromancy was that it was supposed to be common easy to obtain magic school unlike spiritism's etherworld which allows you to farm 100% pvp free spirits that drop flux which can make you very rich completely safely from the entire world, such skill should not and luckily isnt free for everyone to pick up instantly.

Too bad you missed the time when the book was cheap as before only filling boxes was making the book now worth more then just 1-3k gold but the ability to farm flux changed that so the maket prices adapted and now the appropriate price is 14k which again much much lower then it used to be and over time it will get even lower as the market saturates.

You purposefully chosing to play solo, the hardest playstyle you can possibly chose so dont expect to be handed anything easily, even when you dont think that part of spiritism shouldnt be rare, well it is and doesnt seem it will change anytime soon so better stock up on spiritboxes whenever you see them cheap.

 

[Sally]

You can easily get any amount of full spirit boxes to be set for hundreds of fights anywhere on the map, literally talk to any full spiritist either ingame or make a post on official discord where you want them to deliver you the spirit boxes through ether world and as long as you offer good price for them, someone will bring them to you.

Your argue that skillsets shouldnt be part of endgame but thats only partially true, the common skill sets shouldnt be, the rare skillsets can and will be as much as you dont like it, that is the idea behind the game, some skillsets will be parts of endgame dungeons and some even rarer will be nearly unobtainable even but the big zergs such as the possible addition of demonoly or '' the chosen''system in the future. Those will be completely new gameplay styles and they will be extremely hard and rare to encouner.

Your solo way to obtain these skills is to pay up to those who actually put in the work to get these rare books, dont like it thats fine but it seems devs dont agree with your sentiment either as they still havent caved in and added a mini skillbook to unlock multiverse as they did with ritualism which also wasnt solo obtainable originally but because of the outcry over how expensive the ritualism book was on release [50k gold per the book] and that mainly happen because their design idea behind necromancy was that it was supposed to be common easy to obtain magic school unlike spiritism's etherworld which allows you to farm 100% pvp free spirits that drop flux which can make you very rich completely safely from the entire world, such skill should not and luckily isnt free for everyone to pick up instantly.

Too bad you missed the time when the book was cheap as before only filling boxes was making the book now worth more then just 1-3k gold but the ability to farm flux changed that so the maket prices adapted and now the appropriate price is 14k which again much much lower then it used to be and over time it will get even lower as the market saturates.

You purposefully chosing to play solo, the hardest playstyle you can possibly chose so dont expect to be handed anything easily, even when you dont think that part of spiritism shouldnt be rare, well it is and doesnt seem it will change anytime soon so better stock up on spiritboxes whenever you see them cheap.

"The common skillsets"

And what determines that? Their placement. Which was the main argument i was making.

There should be no rare skillsets. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have to do anything to get it, but it should be all attainable solo, in a reasonable fashion. You're saying skillsets should be rare, i am saying they should not be. What they did with necromancy and elementalism is reasonable. It is an adventure, a journey.

14k is too high. That isn't a journey, that is grind. You say "put in the work". They put in no work at all, they just zerg. Do not tell me these people who zerg are putting in effort. They play on the easiest difficulty.

Also, this argument you're making that flux farming shouldn't be easy to attain, you're failing to realize the value of the flux corresponds to the abundance of it. Meaning, if we can all easily get flux, it's value goes down. It doesn't impact the economy at all. You can't get rich from it if everyone can do it. So that is a non-issue.

The fact they made ritualism accessible shows they DO share my view, to a degree. It is likely they simply haven't had someone articulate it well enough to them; or haven't seen as much outcry.

Just because i chose solo doesn't mean i shouldn't have reasonable access to any skillset. Again, an MMO doesn't need to cater to group play at all, as some people just enjoy being in a living world. MMO and team play are not tied together; you can have one without the other.

 

[KebekLorde]

"The common skillsets"

And what determines that? Their placement. Which was the main argument i was making.

There should be no rare skillsets. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have to do anything to get it, but it should be all attainable solo, in a reasonable fashion. You're saying skillsets should be rare, i am saying they should not be. What they did with necromancy and elementalism is reasonable. It is an adventure, a journey.

14k is too high. That isn't a journey, that is grind. You say "put in the work". They put in no work at all, they just zerg. Do not tell me these people who zerg are putting in effort. They play on the easiest difficulty.

Also, this argument you're making that flux farming shouldn't be easy to attain, you're failing to realize the value of the flux corresponds to the abundance of it. Meaning, if we can all easily get flux, it's value goes down. It doesn't impact the economy at all. You can't get rich from it if everyone can do it. So that is a non-issue.

The fact they made ritualism accessible shows they DO share my view, to a degree. It is likely they simply haven't had someone articulate it well enough to them; or haven't seen as much outcry.

Just because i chose solo doesn't mean i shouldn't have reasonable access to any skillset. Again, an MMO doesn't need to cater to group play at all, as some people just enjoy being in a living world. MMO and team play are not tied together; you can have one without the other.

I mean man, whatever makes you happy but there was a large outrcy of many players wanting the same type of notes for multiverse that the ritualism got, many people asked henrik directly on his streams about it in well thought out and polite manner yet he said it isnt planned, his main responce was that solos can get it buy buying it from the big groups and that the cost is player issues, basically he belies that the price isnt his problem to solve but the players.

Ive argued enough over this point, I just wanted to make it clear to you what Henriks vision in terms of SOME kind of playstyles is, if you think he will make all the future new playstyle be it new magic or new weapon skill reasonably easy to obtain by solos, I think youre in for a dissapointment.