Armor normalization

[Jaygrae]

Everyone rolling ALVARIN and FORCED to wear PLATE. What an amazing "sandbox" experience. Coming back to this game after 5 months- this is what I get.

1. Stupidest looking greater-walker models i've EVER seen. (cone heads with a skinny arm and leg, neato who thought of this???)
2. ALVARIN WORLD!!! More so than ever before! Yes guys- so much diversity, lets all roll elves BECAUSE ITS SO OP ITS BROKEN BEYOND BELIEF. (AKA WHY ALL THE GRIEFERS PLAY THEM)
3. More REDS now than ever!!! Thanks for the whole "character slots" on one account. Whats that, REP hits are high? SOO WHAT! You just log in your other toon and circumvent all of the penalties.
4. Sieging is so non-existent boring/expensive, that everyone is just eating their own now. Smaller guilds are completely gone, fragmented beyond belief, and now, we get even MORE fragmentation when Sarducca releases!!! NEATO!
5. The armor fix...??? WHAT? So you neuter the plate armor(s) to basically no diversification, COMPLETELY ignore light armor (still no builds, go naked/ratt or strap on steel) and this is called the "armor patch."....riitttttteeeee.

Can anyone explain to me what is going on with all of this? Same old crap, spike DEX, roll alvarin, ride dire wolves/taur dogs because horses are just a weak slow joke, and make sure you grief/gank noobs because thats what pays.

got it, what an adventure, what a sandbox, this is reaching a point of comedy. 5 months- coming back and the game is more lopsided than ever.

Wrain

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

True asf, it's legit unplayable Alvarins most of all are broken and make other races miserable to play.

Elf with 11%/11% slash/blunt hit as hard as a Thur/Kall with their armor pen clade popped. Even harder than a Thur/Kall if the defender has better than steel. BALANCE. Oh, and now low ping players now take 80% reduced damage if you dare to attack them. Neat

 

[Hruodland]

Everyone rolling ALVARIN and FORCED to wear PLATE. What an amazing "sandbox" experience. Coming back to this game after 5 months- this is what I get.

1. Stupidest looking greater-walker models i've EVER seen. (cone heads with a skinny arm and leg, neato who thought of this???)
2. ALVARIN WORLD!!! More so than ever before! Yes guys- so much diversity, lets all roll elves BECAUSE ITS SO OP ITS BROKEN BEYOND BELIEF. (AKA WHY ALL THE GRIEFERS PLAY THEM)
3. More REDS now than ever!!! Thanks for the whole "character slots" on one account. Whats that, REP hits are high? SOO WHAT! You just log in your other toon and circumvent all of the penalties.
4. Sieging is so non-existent boring/expensive, that everyone is just eating their own now. Smaller guilds are completely gone, fragmented beyond belief, and now, we get even MORE fragmentation when Sarducca releases!!! NEATO!
5. The armor fix...??? WHAT? So you neuter the plate armor(s) to basically no diversification, COMPLETELY ignore light armor (still no builds, go naked/ratt or strap on steel) and this is called the "armor patch."....riitttttteeeee.

Can anyone explain to me what is going on with all of this? Same old crap, spike DEX, roll alvarin, ride dire wolves/taur dogs because horses are just a weak slow joke, and make sure you grief/gank noobs because thats what pays.

got it, what an adventure, what a sandbox, this is reaching a point of comedy. 5 months- coming back and the game is more lopsided than ever.

Wrain

UNfortunately... I see nothing false written here. Already a year ago small guild were being eaten up. Now if you're not a part of one of the big boys, might as well not play.

 

[ElPerro]

It's mostly about heavies because heavies use those armors, and btw heavies are literally every single footie except alvarin with no faw lmao. So every footie capable of wearing steel will wear heavy steel because it jsut makes sense, they have 30kg armor weight often now with acessible trinkets there is no excuse to wearing pre buff risar lets say compared to merc plate. There never wass coz pansar banded legs exist. We explained this mate. I wont repeat myself, pansar banded legs into heaviest armor will always be a default if there is heavier armor with harder stats because legs get hit like 5% of the time.

The problem is giving everyone 30kg armor weight so no wonder ppl just default to the highest weight armor. There is no nuance in a system like that, just wear the heaviest armor. Not to mention there isnt really any penalty for wearing heavy armor, we never got viable light or medium armor. Its heaviest or nothing.

If pansar banded legs become meta everyone will start targetting legs so thats no excuse.

 

[Jaygrae]

The problem is giving everyone 30kg armor weight so no wonder ppl just default to the highest weight armor. There is no nuance in a system like that, just wear the heaviest armor. Not to mention there isnt really any penalty for wearing heavy armor, we never got viable light or medium armor. Its heaviest or nothing.

If pansar banded legs become meta everyone will start targetting legs so thats no excuse.

100%.

So if the majority of PLAYERS know this- WTH is SV doing??? I'm being serious. Hendrik goes on an on about Ultima Online. Uh, last I checked UO had diversity in armor's pro's and con's. This game needs an enema.

 

[Emdash]

True asf, it's legit unplayable Alvarins most of all are broken and make other races miserable to play.

check point number 5. I dunno if you are just arguing cuz it's me, but I am gonna keep bitching about this because it's way worse than you think for the game.

I'm glad it suits you, but it's not the answer. As dude said, we need more armor types with meaningful differences. If everyone is wearing heavy steel, that's a game flaw. I watch people swinging giant weps, on like 25 stam, chugging pots and shit in videos.

I do understand what you explained, but I don't understand why you should fuck up the whole game because heavies got tired of looking at merc plate.

Heavy heavy armor is cool. I'm glad you like it. I like light armor. Everyone running around in 30kg armor is a bit ridiculous imo. And to not have a disadvantage to that other than looking like everyone else?? And what did they do? Make every armor like that. I don't think you understand how fucking stupid it is. I urge you to sit down and really think about it.

They are not really different. They are less different than the light armors, and the light armors offer much less protection / weight.

Again: the argument is basically ALL ARMOR BUT MERC PLATE IS TRASH. What is the solution? Make all other armors like merc plate. WP WP.

 

[Jaygrae]

This problem is a duality. Both of these issues CAN be fixed very easily and WITHOUT an alvarin nerf.

SV you want to keep alvarins your love child and not nerf em? Fine, then lets FIX the armor AND alvarin issue in one swipe.

1. Introduce penalties on weight/speed AND RACE.

For instance:

Humans- Can wear up to 12kg before speed/armor penalty.
Alvarin- Can wear up to 6kg before speed/armor penalty.
Thursar- Can wear up to 15kg before speed/armor penalty.
Oghmir- Can wear up to 18kg before speed/armor penalty.

This penalty would slowly introduce a speed penalty per 1% OVER the racial base. .5% per KG OVER BASE/RACIAL.

So a Human could effectively wear 12kg BEFORE any type of speed penalty is introduced. so a human wearing 25kg would be over his standard 12kg by 13. 13x.5=6.5% speed reduction.

A Alvarin running around in 25kg armor. 25-6=19. 19x.5=9.5% speed reduction. etc....for each race based on the formula above.

other races same formula, but this gives a vast assorment of possible builds/speeds. This would also effectively slow down the front line(s) to a more controlled siege environment, allowing skirmishers to stand out, as well as flankers etc.

This would effectively add diversity of builds, not only esthetics and diversity, but FIX this ridiculous "ELF RUNNING IN FULL PLATE STEEL, MAX BOOSTERS ON, MAX DAMAGE, GO GO GO.:

This also introduces a desire for armor weight reductoin necklaces in a VERY cool position, as well as FIXING some of the broken/worthless clades could easily be carried over. (Looking at you human pilfering clade)

This should also be applied to MOUNTED. Personally I feel the human pilfering clade should be changed to some form of "mounted speed increase or armor reduction while mounted."

KNIGHTS/HORSES should be the majority of mounted warfare and lore. Instead, we get once again, ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM DIRE WOLVES/TAUR/DOGS & ELVES!!!

These changes dont nerf the race, they just force a choice/decision between speed OR defense.

Cmon SV, think of SOMETHING to fix all this crazy 70%+ elf BS. The game was 10x more fun 2+ years ago watching full ogh's and thursars slamming into each other, with elf skirmishers/mages doing their thing. Now the game is just slap as much DEX/STEEL on as you can, get your max dmg ruber trinkets, hits the passive/active buttons=kill. reset.

Wrain

 

[Emdash]

They arent like mercp late exactly they are just same stat amount and similar weight. I mean again. What is your solution?

What is the problem? You want more aesthetics? Sell people skins for their merc plate. If Merc plate is the default pvp armor spread, then I would think that would inspire some thought into how the whole system is working, creating a giant gap between banded and merc and making every heavy armor the same weight seems ridiculous to me.

I have said my piece. I dunno why SV isn't listening. Some people are cool with this change, but their defense of it does not match the critique of it that is coming from people who want the game to be interesting and flavorful.

You can't flatten speed curve imo because that makes the game stale. It'd be like making every mount the same speed. You can't flatten armor. You can't flatten ANYTHING without making the game stale as fuck. You are right that there are more important things to work on, and this change came in as a ninja... I wasn't on the discord at that point, and I didn't know about it until this thread. And even when I read it, I was like yea they aren't really gonna make every armor that similar, but they DID.

In the end, I pushed for a lot of shit to get changed. If you look at it, a lot of the shit I had problems with has been changed and now people are wanting to play again. However, they cannot get by without shooting themselves in the foot with changes like this.

It's just 'vision' and 'direction.' I remember when MO wasn't a game about simplification. Even if your build is ass against 19 of the most popular builds, but if it hard counters 1 and you can find a way to face that build more than you face all of the others, your build is viable, imo. You can't judge a whole sandbox game off of what people wear to outpost sieges. People are playing different games so normalization is stupid. I wish I could make it clearer. I wish you didn't think that I was talking random shit without knowing anything, but I am unable to prove to you that my point of view has merit, and, worse, seemingly unable to reason with anyone who might actually get this changed.

It's like the times they introduced other shit I really disliked, like when they came out with fkn orbs. It's like WHAT ARE YOU DOING SV?! It's a hard L, and I guess I gotta suck it up and move on, but once again, watch and see what happens.

The only way this game is going to thrive ever is flavor, having an interesting world. The neckbeards that go super hard on pvp without a thought of anything else, who are prol doing shit that is against the game ToS as well, come and go, and really just deplete the soul of the game.

You said the game will be dead... well, it doesn't matter if it is dead or not, if it's soul-less. So dudes can go in Risar Dungeon or to outpost sieges and see someone with Risar Soldier arms instead of full merc. Gfg.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Remove alvarin percentage modification passive speed clades and the game is demonstrably better.

 

[Emdash]

and again its a good change and armor balance is much better than last patch where merc plate was the only option. So all I hear is it could have been better, it could have, but this is not RIot games, this is Starvault that has like 3 dudes and the game has too many other bigger issues to focus on, which I named, the biggest one being Alvarins, outnumbered fighting, and new player retention/murder hoboing in newbie areas.

it's not better, it's basically equal. Armor balance isn't better because there is all this shit you can't make anymore at certain weights.

They should balanced STEEL IRONFUR to be like if you put steel ironfur in, it give you a basic set regardless of what your plate type is. Steel is a basic mat and ironfur is a basic mat. Both are prevalent and accessible to all.

If that's what everyone is wearing. To change how the armors work + their weight is just aids. I wish I hadn't wasted all that time writing that other post, but w/e.

This change didn't need to happen now @ 3 guys. It proves it was just a shoddy rando fix because it makes no sense. But, whatever. We shall see how it all works out long term.

 

[Emdash]

You can't say that they didn't remove what draco was from the game. I can go further on that, but draco was a unique, cool armor and they shit all over it. That's not the only issue, but it's a great example.

Azog was saying they should let people make pre patch still. They should add +2 to draco slash as steel, add like +4 to all risar, let people keep the normalized shit, too, while they work on the game.

This is OK if it's a step toward something, but it's not OK as an end game. It isn't equal but it basically is, especially on weight, which is a huge factor. the game is missing a lot on that level and it's a step in the wrong direction and further away from light viable armor.

 

[Emdash]

I dunno what more I can say?

Cron Draco pre patch:

44.75 blunt (makess sense imo)
76.83 pierce (funny to be hit by outlaw bows for 0)
66.73 slash (pretty low for sure)

New Cron Draco:

46.10 blunt (does it make a huge difference, kinda I guess?)
74.34 pierce (big drop imo)
73.34 slash (which is higher than merc was btw ?? makes no sense.)

Plus they made it heavier, so the idea of using draco torso on a low armor wt character gets you less pierce and more weight, which is trash. Or if you wanted to wear like a TUNG draco chest, it'll be a lot harder now and not worth it.

They took an armor with a purpose and removed it. They didn't need to do that.

What is shocking me is that you are feeling this change is so amazing when you could have just worn merc and said fuck it and left the rest of the game alone haha.

In short:

The idea of rebalancing armor is SMART and NECESSARY.

Balancing armor by normalizing it in a patch most of us didn't even get to give input on or even know about is A BIT CRAZY at this point in the game when they are actually getting new players / players back.

I just unspecced a lot of AT points. I hope it gets changed, but I don't think they are gonna listen on this one. This is just as brainless as +10 health. It doesn't -really- matter, as one change, but if you just keep adding in shit like this... the game will suffer.

Again more options = different ways to build your armor set, to me at least. NOT different ways to appear while getting the same prots. But yea this is a dead horse. I am glad you spoke with me about it, and I am less triggered overall, but I am positive it's not a good long term change, and I hope they have more balance ideas beyond this.

just gonna eat the 2k cron I wasted on these sets haha. I already fed 5k to bad company, so fuk it. Maybe I'll make spears

 

[Emdash]

Man, middle weight armor is so trolled atm.

REVERT DRACO or make a medium set that is pierce resist and metal.

Add in another medium set that can be metal and is a more for close fighting.

Would have been nice to have TK and Merc be heavy, add in a medium metal tier and put risar and draco in it.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Iloros I would just ignore him on balance at this point. Anyone who roles only elf should have their opinion immediately discarded. Dude even has a mounted elf.

 

[Emdash]

Hard disagree and I explained multiple times why medium or light armors with plate do not work if people can wear merc they always will if we revert to prepatch 95% of builds can so youll just see merc. Draco is in the best state ever and used plenty but so are all the other armors. Cron Draco was shit and worse than steel merc.

I support you guys having sets that suit your build. But guess what, you did. There was a set that suited my build, too, but now it does not exist.

I'm not going to address any of the other wild irrelevant shit you said. Explain to me why they removed light anti-pierce armor and why that is good balance.

I am continuing to reduce the amount of words in my posts. I am trying to write very simply and ask a very simple question. I hope you understand it this time. Please answer with a reason that is not: it had 2 be done cuz 85% of people wore merc.

 

[Emdash]

First off its not that much heavier and risar still exists and is lighter than prepatch draco and better and second of all I explained it already. 95% of builds can easily wear full steel and those that dont make full merc steel and use weaker kegs because legs rarely get hit and give massive amounts of free weight and also you dont hear ppl sneaking up. Quit asking same stuff you are like one of 5 people that prefer old draco.

you didn't address my point. It is heavier. It does have less pierce. Why is that OK? There was already an armor like Merc... Merc.

One could approach this debate from many angles, but I am choosing this. The idea is that changes affect more than people think. You talk about elves being OP, but they are really the greatest example of this.

I do not wish to continue this tho. I trust people reading this will come to their own conclusions.

 

[Emdash]

Iloros I would just ignore him on balance at this point. Anyone who roles only elf should have their opinion immediately discarded. Dude even has a mounted elf.

also, I've been posting on this forum for like 5 years. I am shocked that your memory is so bad that you really think that. I also am not gonna apologize for having an elf or for using a mount. No idea what you are mad at me for.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

also, I've been posting on this forum for like 5 years. I am shocked that your memory is so bad that you really think that. I also am not gonna apologize for having an elf or for using a mount. No idea what you are mad at me for.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

25~31 damage on steel with sword. no armor pen.
15 dmg with flurry to ogh armor.

 

[Emdash]

Alvarin mounted is combo of 2 most op and cowardly and defended builds. Its a joke really but you are playing a giga op build.

it's not my only build was the point. Review my post history for my thoughts on the aspects you believe are OP.

It's best to use logic when discussing things, opposed to talking shit.

An interesting fact: I had my friend make a piece of Pansar Husk Risar soldier to see how good it was. He made banded and RS and there was only a slight difference in pierce, like, less than normalized difference, but massive weight. Metal helps, for sure, but something is off with the way they are mathing these things out.

It's hard to not lob insults back at you guys, and that's why I don't wanna discuss. It's a waste of time, especially considering you have already conceded that I am right twice, even if you quickly went back to your old persona.

As for MortalEnjoyer, it is like how you go hot and cold on the game. I never know when you are gonna like my posts or when you are gonna rage out. You should try reading who the poster is before hitting like.

Peace... and I still hope they do something better than what they have done with armor.