Alvarin nerf suggestion list - in case you didn't nerf them for the patch day and everyone spams you

[Iloros]

Sarducca tomorrow, if they didn't nerf Alvarins they will make the other races quit by the day because of how unfair and toxic pvp versus them is, streamers will cry (hurts henrik the most), new and returning players will get farmed with no counterplay, current vet guilds will roll full Alvarin comps and every fight and build will be the same in an mmorpg.

Heres the list of nerfs to do when you fold so you don't mess it up:

1.25% speed + 15 stam clades x 2 need to be removed and replaced by something like +2 con or +2 psyche.

Alvarin sight needs to be removed and replaced with +2 con or +2 psyche

Armor pierce needs to either be removed or made into a healing reduction.

All the stamina regeneration modifiers need to be removed.

Further nerfs if needed down the road:

Cut down of masteries and clade gifts for archery strength requitement to make them use 113 bows again not 120 or whatever.

Cut down of both Veelas and Sheevras int and con by 5-15 and removal of their attribute points by 5-15.

Congrats while your game is not perfectly balanced because no game is (henrik uses "cant be perfrct therefore we should ignore" argument for balance) but its way better to where its not bottlenecking your games growth.

Balance is a constant process in gaming and needs to be done every patch its just a few number changes, what you did with armors was easy and perfect, Alvarin nerf will make the game much more playable but with more conzent weapons abilities playstyles will emerge more overpowered builds and you will need to adress them way before your gamr reaches 300 pop because 3 out of 4 races are literally unplayable LOL what other mmorpg has that?

P.S. what motivated me to write this one real quick was leader of Wolfszeit metah after years of defending Alvarins and trolling realizing the grave mistake of doing so and begging Henrik to nerf them, the situation is so bad Alvarin supremacists like Diphrael, Venti and himself are beggining for nerfs too lmao. MIND YOU these people were first to say Alvarin doesnt need nerf a few months back when they were also the most played racr but not its gone from like 50% of the people playing them to every single other build being a total joke and leaving so they are like 80%?? of people playing rn (actively playing the game not afk in town trade accounts)

They have ruined your game, do not waste Sarducca hype away by letting rat builds dominate all pvp because your stubborn ass refuses to do balance patches.

 

[ElPerro]

Its okay bro I was just on the phone with Henrik, he says dont worry the races are balanced for Sarducaa.

He would come down to the forums and post himself but hes too busy right now doing an underwear photoshoot.

 

[Iloros]

Its okay bro I was just on the phone with Henrik, he says dont worry the races are balanced for Sarducaa.

He would come down to the forums and post himself but hes too busy right now doing an underwear photoshoot.

great

 

[Dargelar]

I'm certainly extremely negative about the Alvarin, but your edits have touched even me.

The main problems are the virtual absence of significant weaknesses for this race, while their strengths are unmatched by other races.

Problem #1 – Alvarin Mobility
1. Combined with their low aggro radius, this directly disrupts the gameplay balance, allowing them to ignore 99% of dangerous situations in PvE and use them to enrich themselves, creating advantageous positions for PvP. It's no secret that Alvarin can complete almost all dungeons without fighting mobs, which is naturally unfair – the PvE exploration path should be more or less the same for all races. Mobs may notice Alvarin less often, but they attack and pursue at a faster rate than other races, forcing them into combat.
2. The developers should determine and differentiate between what exactly Alvarin are better at: running (active running) or being mobile in combat. Define and provide only one buff, not two. Specifically, this is a fix to the speed bonus they receive from Gifts; it should provide either a bonus to combat speed or to normal speed.

Problem #2 – Lack of racial downsides
1. The Alvarin Gifts skill tree is balanced so that it suits all builds, has no downsides, and allows for all PvP skills without the need for a difficult choice.
2. In addition to the fastest speed, the Alvarin has the health and magic resistance of a human, the stamina of an Ogmir, access to heavy bows and armor, and a unique universal penetration bonus (not a fixed one – only for bows, but a universal one).
3. The lack of downsides to the provided bonuses. Why, for example, if the bonus is a Tursar, then you get a penalty to healing, while an Ogmir pays for healing by increasing the consumption of reserves. Here are some examples:
Alvarin can jump the same height in combat as he can outside of combat—a powerful skill, but why is it a passive skill and not an active one like Tursar's adamant? Make it an toggle during combat, and let Alvarin pay double the stamina cost for a boosted jump.

Falling from heights is also a nice, low-cost mega-passive. Why doesn't Alvarin trade stamina for the damage reduction? Not enough stamina = take full damage. Technically, he's no more durable than other races; he just somersaults like a ""yamakashi" and redistributes damage, but that's an effortful action that comes at a cost.

Sprinter/Runner—if you're choosing the path of a fast, light runner, be a weakling and forgo plate armor. Why does choosing these passives give massive stat boosts but require nothing in return? Even though +15 stamina alone is worth a whole Gifts point. Why doesn't Alvarin pay 3-4 kg of available armor weight in exchange for this?

I don't mind there being a character like Alvarin, but why is he so easy to use compared to other races? Why don't you have to sweat and work for him like the other races?

 

[Iloros]

I'm certainly extremely negative about the Alvarin, but your edits have touched even me.

The main problems are the virtual absence of significant weaknesses for this race, while their strengths are unmatched by other races.

Problem #1 – Alvarin Mobility
1. Combined with their low aggro radius, this directly disrupts the gameplay balance, allowing them to ignore 99% of dangerous situations in PvE and use them to enrich themselves, creating advantageous positions for PvP. It's no secret that Alvarin can complete almost all dungeons without fighting mobs, which is naturally unfair – the PvE exploration path should be more or less the same for all races. Mobs may notice Alvarin less often, but they attack and pursue at a faster rate than other races, forcing them into combat.
2. The developers should determine and differentiate between what exactly Alvarin are better at: running (active running) or being mobile in combat. Define and provide only one buff, not two. Specifically, this is a fix to the speed bonus they receive from Gifts; it should provide either a bonus to combat speed or to normal speed.

Problem #2 – Lack of racial downsides
1. The Alvarin Gifts skill tree is balanced so that it suits all builds, has no downsides, and allows for all PvP skills without the need for a difficult choice.
2. In addition to the fastest speed, the Alvarin has the health and magic resistance of a human, the stamina of an Ogmir, access to heavy bows and armor, and a unique universal penetration bonus (not a fixed one – only for bows, but a universal one).
3. The lack of downsides to the provided bonuses. Why, for example, if the bonus is a Tursar, then you get a penalty to healing, while an Ogmir pays for healing by increasing the consumption of reserves. Here are some examples:
Alvarin can jump the same height in combat as he can outside of combat—a powerful skill, but why is it a passive skill and not an active one like Tursar's adamant? Make it an toggle during combat, and let Alvarin pay double the stamina cost for a boosted jump.

Falling from heights is also a nice, low-cost mega-passive. Why doesn't Alvarin trade stamina for the damage reduction? Not enough stamina = take full damage. Technically, he's no more durable than other races; he just somersaults like a ""yamakashi" and redistributes damage, but that's an effortful action that comes at a cost.

Sprinter/Runner—if you're choosing the path of a fast, light runner, be a weakling and forgo plate armor. Why does choosing these passives give massive stat boosts but require nothing in return? Even though +15 stamina alone is worth a whole Gifts point. Why doesn't Alvarin pay 3-4 kg of available armor weight in exchange for this?

I don't mind there being a character like Alvarin, but why is he so easy to use compared to other races? Why don't you have to sweat and work for him like the other races?

Literally dude Thursar clade gifts be like

20 hp per minute -20% healing

+5 stam +5 health (2 points)

10% dmg for 10 seconds 8 MINUTE COOLDOWN???


Alvarin


26 seconds of armor pierce + speed + stam regen 153 second cooldown

+ 2.5% passive speed +30 stam (2 points)

Like 60-70? speed for 10 seconds

Take no fall dmg and no swim dmg and fuck it here you go more yield whem farming BECAUSE ALVARIN GOTTA BE BETTER EVEN WHEN COMBAT ISNT INVOLVED AND AFK FARMING

It genuinely just comes down to them not having an actual balance designer or a team it seems on top of refusing to ever meddle with balance as if its perfect.


Dude a dementia patient in early stages could be explained how the game currently is and go "nerf Alvarins" its so obvious.

Listen man if Thursars JUST swapped lifesteal (their strongest ability) with runners high they'd be BY FAR the strongest race, that goes for any race in the game runners high is absurdly broken.

Or their passive little nodes like +3% dmg +5 hp +5 stam with 2.5% speed 30 stam are you kidding?

Its not an intricate detailed complex problem with balancing speed in gaming or something we have to discuss for long they are just clearly overstat and need a nerf hammer.

 

[Embuscade]

@Iloros @Dargelar
https://mortalcodex.com/builder https://mortalforge.online/hero use this website screenshoot modification/suggestion and we will see

- Or does adding momentum, changing the trajectory – making it straighter – and left-right movements perhaps use up more stamina?
It’s more their extreme mobility that seems to be causing you problems

The thing is, they’re not very resilient; in fact, we should also review things like resistance to burst damage. If there were less burst damage or if it were more difficult to land on the opponent, that might help (for example, reducing bow damage by 30% and adding a non-stackable poison DoT that deals damage over time, but doesn’t have the same effect as ‘Corrupt’).

https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/fixed-in-5-steps-or-less-clade-mastery.14961/#post-99882 This idea of ‘Spell Interrupt Chance Masteries’ – actually, I think we need to rethink the whole concept of interrupts in masteries and classes. Above all, I don’t even understand how interrupts work in the first place – what are the probabilities and how does it all work?

Even if it means having a few interrupts
-15 de vitalism and like "Roughrider +15 skill levels in all Mounted skills" seems but just +10 skill levels in all vitalisme skills ?

"2.5% speed 30 stam" I'm generally against removing clades, but adding them to masteries without requiring a buff—why not?

 

[Dargelar]

@Iloros
Literally dude Thursar clade gifts be like
20 hp per second -20% healing

The Tursar's Treasure doesn't provide 20 HP/second, 1 HP/3 seconds, or 20 HP/min. Even if you add the bonus from passive regeneration, which provides 10 HP/minute and 20 HP/minute for the Tursar.
We only get 40 HP/minute, which is equivalent to an auto-bandage with one bandage or two healing casts. This is good for a unique racial ability, but it's hardly imbalanced, since this ability still needs to be used while the fight is dragging on.
For this, the Tursar pays -20% healing, which, given that this carcass will never flee from a fight, is an extremely harsh penalty.
And how does Alvarin pay? Nothing; he simply lives at his hyper-speed, enjoying bonuses from all options. The only thing he probably doesn't have is vampirism.

The problem with all treasures is that:
- The difficult choice rule isn't followed; a player can select all the key treasures of a race, and therefore their value is reduced. The current version of treasures doesn't serve the purpose of building a build.
- Duplicate treasures look extremely awkward when given identical items by a race, and this is positioned as variety; it would be much more logical to simply add levels of treasure leveling up to level 3.
- Treasures that provide passive skill bonuses for active points are mere pennies and look insignificant compared to other treasures.

Adequately, these treasures should provide either:
- A boost beyond the maximum development level
- 100 points of the chosen skill and not torment players.
- The scaling coefficient for leveling this skill is 3-5 skill points for 1 active point. (This option works better with the leveling mechanics of treasure leveling).
- PVE hoards combined with PVP is a fundamentally stupid and unviable concept.
IMHO, the best option for reforming hoards is:
- Remove all duplicate and PVE hoards from the hoard tree.
- Place PVE hoards in a line above the hoard tree (without any progression links). Give 1 PVE hoard point every 5 hoard levels, for a total of 3 PVE hoards to choose from.
- Replace the removed hoards with useful PVP and tactical items, useful skill upgrades for active points, secondary stats: health, stamina, stamina and mana regeneration, reduced weapon requirements similar to Alvarin's bow bonuses, and incoming and outgoing healing bonuses.
Each treasure has 3 levels of upgrades, each costing 1-1-2 treasures. This will ensure variety and the inability to select everything, and most importantly, eliminate treasures that provide a whole list of bonuses.

I really hope the developers will pay more attention to character stat balance and improve the adrenaline skills.

- I'd like the chance to knock down and push back to be dependent on a controllable stat, specifically the character's weight, rather than a fixed number. The heavier the character, the harder it is to push them back, but easier to knock them back.
- If a player reduces their height to save stat points, then they should spend the points on balance upgrades to avoid turning into a soccer ball in battle and getting knocked back by every blow.

The cost of bow skills should be revised.
- The bow builds adrenaline absurdly quickly, even though the archer essentially risks nothing. - The cost of abilities relative to their effectiveness is extremely low and should start at a minimum of 4 points for the weakest skill and 6 for the strongest.
- I wanted a strong shot (if the shooter is standing) to check for the possibility of unseating the rider when attacking. A lack of a saddle (or armor) would negatively impact the chance of being unseated, and the armor stats should include a saddle durability parameter.

More ranged control effects instead of silly attacks with the handle or just two or three strikes.

 

[Embuscade]

@Dargelar​

You're using terms like “Treasure(not" "ig", yes, i suppose that was poorly translated—what I meant was, you're not using the actual English words from the game; you're rephrasing them in a way that isn't quite accurate, and that's annoying.)”—it's hard to understand what you mean. I guess you meant “trinkets.”
And if the Thursar is like that, it’s because it’s a health pool with lifesteal, as you said, and if it isn’t corrupted, it can regenerate health. Without that, by default, it can handle 1v3 situations against a lot of things, and through the orbs, there are bonuses that grant +x% healing dealt or received.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Edit To correct an error, it's highlighted in color.

 

[Iloros]

@Iloros
Literally dude Thursar clade gifts be like
20 hp per second -20% healing

The Tursar's Treasure doesn't provide 20 HP/second, 1 HP/3 seconds, or 20 HP/min. Even if you add the bonus from passive regeneration, which provides 10 HP/minute and 20 HP/minute for the Tursar.
We only get 40 HP/minute, which is equivalent to an auto-bandage with one bandage or two healing casts. This is good for a unique racial ability, but it's hardly imbalanced, since this ability still needs to be used while the fight is dragging on.
For this, the Tursar pays -20% healing, which, given that this carcass will never flee from a fight, is an extremely harsh penalty.
And how does Alvarin pay? Nothing; he simply lives at his hyper-speed, enjoying bonuses from all options. The only thing he probably doesn't have is vampirism.

The problem with all treasures is that:
- The difficult choice rule isn't followed; a player can select all the key treasures of a race, and therefore their value is reduced. The current version of treasures doesn't serve the purpose of building a build.
- Duplicate treasures look extremely awkward when given identical items by a race, and this is positioned as variety; it would be much more logical to simply add levels of treasure leveling up to level 3.
- Treasures that provide passive skill bonuses for active points are mere pennies and look insignificant compared to other treasures.

Adequately, these treasures should provide either:
- A boost beyond the maximum development level
- 100 points of the chosen skill and not torment players.
- The scaling coefficient for leveling this skill is 3-5 skill points for 1 active point. (This option works better with the leveling mechanics of treasure leveling).
- PVE hoards combined with PVP is a fundamentally stupid and unviable concept.
IMHO, the best option for reforming hoards is:
- Remove all duplicate and PVE hoards from the hoard tree.
- Place PVE hoards in a line above the hoard tree (without any progression links). Give 1 PVE hoard point every 5 hoard levels, for a total of 3 PVE hoards to choose from.
- Replace the removed hoards with useful PVP and tactical items, useful skill upgrades for active points, secondary stats: health, stamina, stamina and mana regeneration, reduced weapon requirements similar to Alvarin's bow bonuses, and incoming and outgoing healing bonuses.
Each treasure has 3 levels of upgrades, each costing 1-1-2 treasures. This will ensure variety and the inability to select everything, and most importantly, eliminate treasures that provide a whole list of bonuses.

I really hope the developers will pay more attention to character stat balance and improve the adrenaline skills.

- I'd like the chance to knock down and push back to be dependent on a controllable stat, specifically the character's weight, rather than a fixed number. The heavier the character, the harder it is to push them back, but easier to knock them back.
- If a player reduces their height to save stat points, then they should spend the points on balance upgrades to avoid turning into a soccer ball in battle and getting knocked back by every blow.

The cost of bow skills should be revised.
- The bow builds adrenaline absurdly quickly, even though the archer essentially risks nothing. - The cost of abilities relative to their effectiveness is extremely low and should start at a minimum of 4 points for the weakest skill and 6 for the strongest.
- I wanted a strong shot (if the shooter is standing) to check for the possibility of unseating the rider when attacking. A lack of a saddle (or armor) would negatively impact the chance of being unseated, and the armor stats should include a saddle durability parameter.

More ranged control effects instead of silly attacks with the handle or just two or three strikes.

I edited it, yeah 20 per minute, just accidently wrote second there.
And I read all that you said and I absolutely agree man, especially with the 0 variety in clade gifts, they could just add more options, so not everyone has the same exact build, like instead of 30, you add 50 clade gifts, and just make them anything man you don't need some crazy shit, just +3 raw con +3 raw con +3% hp as one node for Thursars for example.
But nah they give us 30 out of which 2-3 don't work and like 10 don't do almost anyting (2 raw con for example) so you never pick it and eveyrone ends up with the same build and all the active clades they need.

Illusion of choice, customization and variety but there's none. Not with the weapons, not with the spells, not with the builds...

 

[Iloros]

@Dargelar​

You're using terms like “ig”—it's hard to understand what you mean. I guess you meant “trinkets.”
And if the Thursar is like that, it’s because it’s a health pool with lifesteal, as you said, and if it isn’t corrupted, it can regenerate health. Without that, by default, it can handle 1v3 situations against a lot of things, and through the orbs, there are bonuses that grant +x% healing dealt or received.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

orbs dont work on lifestela, nothing impacts it, not healing cuts or healing increases other than corrupt.

 

[Embuscade]

orbs dont work on lifestela, nothing impacts it, not healing cuts or healing increases other than corrupt.

I had seen a few things involving healing—I don't remember what exactly.

Maybe there are just certain items left over from a previous era, or maybe the Relics/Meteor update was just released before they removed some stuff?

 

[Dargelar]

@Dargelar
You're using terms like “ig”—it's hard to understand what you mean. I guess you meant “trinkets.”
And if the Thursar is like that, it’s because it’s a health pool with lifesteal, as you said, and if it isn’t corrupted, it can regenerate health. Without that, by default, it can handle 1v3 situations against a lot of things, and through the orbs, there are bonuses that grant +x% healing dealt or received.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Could you show the entire phrase? I didn't find the "ig" combination in my post.

Regarding Thursar, only Styganthrope constantly restores Thursar's health; passive regeneration restores it once per minute, and you still have to survive that minute.

Vampirism isn't so simple either; it only restores health when damage is dealt and as a percentage of that damage. While against a monster, it's a substantial chunk of health, against a warrior in heavy armor, it's mere crumbs, and if they're a master of parrying, you'll get nothing at all. This is radically different from pressing "Rock Solid" and simply ignoring the same amount of damage by doing nothing, or pressing "Alvarin Warcry" and simply ignoring all damage by "dodging attacks." In the first case, everything depends on the situation and the player's skill; in other situations, player skill has virtually no effect.

Yes, Thursar is good in 1v1 battles with average weapons and armor, where the fight can drag out. But as soon as gear quality improves, the number of opponents on both sides increases, the pace of combat picks up, and healers come into play, Tursars find themselves in a worse position than humans.

In my opinion, such a huge penalty is unjustified and doesn't take into account the scaling of the players fighting and the threat of magical attack for a race with low psyche. Tursars are huge, attract damage more often than small Ogmirs, and are completely devoid of magical protection.

 

[Embuscade]

Treasure*
- > https://mortalcodex.com/builder LifeSteal not "Vampirism
- > https://mortalforge.online/hero#c=W...ItMyIsIjIiXSx7fSxbXSx7fSxudWxsLG51bGwsbnVsbF0 Thermoregulation.
In the long run, I imagine they’ll bring it back, and that you’ll lose points or that it’ll affect stamina, mana, or something else—you can test it out in a video if you want to be really helpful (I don’t play mages, and I haven’t asked my gaming contacts or Wolfzeist about this). Is fire and ice damage in Elementalism reduced by 6% against Thursars when they get hit with a pick?

You can create your own Dargelar threads; that'll be better than posting replies in threads where the topic is the Alvarin nerf.
@Speznat project for video ?

 

[Iloros]

Could you show the entire phrase? I didn't find the "ig" combination in my post.

Regarding Thursar, only Styganthrope constantly restores Thursar's health; passive regeneration restores it once per minute, and you still have to survive that minute.

Vampirism isn't so simple either; it only restores health when damage is dealt and as a percentage of that damage. While against a monster, it's a substantial chunk of health, against a warrior in heavy armor, it's mere crumbs, and if they're a master of parrying, you'll get nothing at all. This is radically different from pressing "Rock Solid" and simply ignoring the same amount of damage by doing nothing, or pressing "Alvarin Warcry" and simply ignoring all damage by "dodging attacks." In the first case, everything depends on the situation and the player's skill; in other situations, player skill has virtually no effect.

Yes, Thursar is good in 1v1 battles with average weapons and armor, where the fight can drag out. But as soon as gear quality improves, the number of opponents on both sides increases, the pace of combat picks up, and healers come into play, Tursars find themselves in a worse position than humans.

In my opinion, such a huge penalty is unjustified and doesn't take into account the scaling of the players fighting and the threat of magical attack for a race with low psyche. Tursars are huge, attract damage more often than small Ogmirs, and are completely devoid of magical protection.

Passive regen has been changed to tick every 3 seconds now. But yes Thursar is bad, so is everything but Alvarin really, on foot.

 

[Embuscade]

Passive regen has been changed to tick every 3 seconds now. But yes Thursar is bad, so is everything but Alvarin really, on foot.

I’m just waiting to see what happens, and these ideas aren’t really based on much.
- Could Thermoregulation perhaps grant +6% magic resistance? And if, in future, there’s +6% resistance to ice and fire magic, well, that’ll make it +12% magic resistance for fire and ice, but not for stone and—I can’t quite remember—whatever else there is in elementalism, like an element that shoots straight ahead without going too fast.

 

[Iloros]

I’m just waiting to see what happens, and these ideas aren’t really based on much.
- Could Thermoregulation perhaps grant +6% magic resistance? And if, in future, there’s +6% resistance to ice and fire magic, well, that’ll make it +12% magic resistance for fire and ice, but not for stone and—I can’t quite remember—whatever else there is in elementalism, like an element that shoots straight ahead without going too fast.

Could work, I mean they just gotta start balancing stuff anythings better tham thermoregulation that does nothing as of now except redu e fireball dmg by 1