A Restitution System: Rewarding the Prey and Balancing the Hunt

[WeAreAllMortal]

Predators need prey, and prey need a reason to stay. This is the fundamental truth of any PvP sandbox. Yet, as history has shown, games like Mortal Online 2 struggle to address this balance. Victims are left frustrated, while predators have no meaningful incentives to moderate their behavior. The result? Prey vanish, leaving a barren world of aimless predators.​

But what if we could change that—not by eliminating chaos, but by ensuring that even the prey have something to gain? Enter the Restitution System, a proposal to empower victims, balance the predator-prey ecosystem, and create a more sustainable world.

The Proposed Restitution System​

This system focuses on giving victims meaningful compensation for their losses while preserving the freedom and immersion that make MO2 unique.

1. Restitution as a Choice​

How It Works:​

• When a red player kills another, the victim receives the option to file a Restitution Claim.
  
• Victims select from a predefined list of resources (e.g., granum, wood, leather) and enter an alternative gold amount as compensation (more on this below).
  
• The red player is notified and can either:
  
  • Accept and Fulfill the claim by delivering the gold to a Fixer in a red town, clearing the crime from their record.
    
  • Decline the claim, leaving the crime unresolved and their criminal status active until restitution is paid or they’re captured.

The Role of the Fixer:​

A shadowy broker located in red towns who facilitates restitution and takes a cut of the payment. The Fixer adds flavor with quips like:

• “Justice doesn’t come cheap, but hey, neither does freedom.”
  
• “Don’t like the price? Good luck running from your past.”

Reds deal with the Fixer to resolve claims without facing the penal colony.

2. Escalation: From Restitution to Penal Colony​

Reds who avoid or refuse restitution remain fugitives. However, if captured by:

• Guards,
  
• Bounty hunters,
  
• Or lawful (or unlawful) players performing a citizen’s arrest,
  

They are sent to:

The Penal Colony: A Grim Island of Labor and Restitution

The Penal Colony is a stark prison island located off the coast of Myrland. Roughly half the size of Haven, the island is no tropical retreat—it is designed purely as a labor camp. While not visually diverse, it contains carefully distributed resources that reds must harvest to pay off their debts:

• Sparse forests with various trees.
  
• Rocky outcrops for mining.
  
• Small animal populations for hunting and butchering.
  

Upon capture and deportation, the red player’s entire inventory is placed in escrow. These belongings remain inaccessible until their release, where they can reclaim what wasn’t been looted by other players following their defeat.

The colony is fully enclosed by imposing walls and surrounded by rough waters, making escape impossible. Guards patrol the colony more for atmosphere than enforcement, but their ever-watchful presence reinforces the severity of life within the prison.

Essential NPCs and Roles​

Key NPCs ensure the colony runs smoothly and convicts can work off their penalties efficiently:

1. The Bailiff​

The Bailiff is the colony’s unforgiving taskmaster, managing restitution payments and tracking crimes. Reds must visit the Bailiff to access their "crime sheet", which lists unresolved crimes. Reds deposit the required resources to clear each crime. Examples of the Bailiff’s blunt commentary:

• “Don’t look at me like that. You earned your time here.”
  
• “One stack down. A few more to go—unless you’re planning on staying.”

Once all crimes are cleared, the Bailiff issues a Writ of Release, which must be presented to the Release Officer.

2. The Overseer/Quartermaster​

The Overseer provides basic tools for resource gathering:

• Axes for chopping wood.
  
• Picks for mining stone and ore.
  
• Basic weapons (e.g., newbie swords or bows) for hunting animals.
  

Tools are utilitarian and may need replacing. The Overseer is brusque, with remarks like:

• “You break it, don’t bother coming back until tomorrow!”
  
• “This isn’t a charity. Use it, don’t lose it.”
  
• “Tools don’t grow on trees—though maybe you’ll find some while chopping one down.”
  

3. The Release Officer​

The Release Officer is the final stop for reds. Upon presenting their Writ of Release, they:

1. Restore the convict’s blue status.
   
2. Return confiscated belongings (minus any looted by other players).

Some of the Release Officer’s snarky remarks include:

• “Ah, here it is. Everything you brought in, minus the bad attitude.”
  
• “Enjoy your freedom. Not that it’ll last long.”
  

A small ship at the dock takes the convict back to the mainland, unceremoniously depositing them to restart their journey.

Labor System and Resource Collection​

The island’s purpose is labor. Reds must gather resources to fulfill restitution claims:

• Victims receive a full stack of the resource they selected at the Justiciar.
  
• All resources available for victim selection are farmable in the colony. This prevents victims from trapping reds indefinitely by demanding impossible-to-acquire materials.
  

Atmosphere and Aesthetic​

The colony is bleak and oppressive:

• The sound of axes chopping, pickaxes clanging, and caged animals fills the air.
  
• Narrow dirt paths lead between work zones, patrolled by guards on elevated walls.
  
• Crude barracks provide basic shelter; luxuries are nonexistent.
  

Key Features:​

1. Freedom for Reds, at a Cost: Reds maintain freedom if they avoid capture but remain criminals outside lawful society.
   
2. Outlaws Policing Outlaws: Outlaws can capture other outlaws in lawless zones, fostering criminal feuds and uneasy truces.
   
3. Emergent Gameplay: The system supports betrayal, loyalty, and vendettas driven by player choice.
   

Why Restitution Matters​

The restitution system creates consequences for predation while giving victims meaningful compensation. It balances the ecosystem, ensuring both predators and prey thrive.

Anticipating Criticism​

• "This punishes reds too much!"
  Reds can avoid claims or evade capture, but risks now carry rewards.
  
• "Victims will exploit this system!"
  Safeguards like time-limited claims and default labor compensation prevent abuse.
  
• "Why not just add a PvP toggle?"
  A PvP toggle would destroy MO2’s identity. Restitution preserves freedom while addressing imbalance.

Let’s Discuss!​

Would you support a system like this? What tweaks or additions would you suggest? Could restitution be the key to breaking the predator-prey cycle that plagues PvP sandboxes? Share your thoughts below!

 

[Teknique]

I like it. Sounds similar to star citizen.

 

[WeAreAllMortal]

I like it. Sounds similar to star citizen.

Thanks, Teknique! The comparison to Star Citizen is definitely flattering—it’s one of the few games that tackles crime and justice in a meaningful way. However, our restitution system takes a fundamentally different (and I’d argue better!) approach by addressing the victim's experience in a way no game I’m aware of has managed.

In Star Citizen, while justice is being served in the abstract—bounties are issued, and offenders might end up mining in Klescher—it remains largely impersonal. Victims see that the killer is being punished, but their own loss still feels unresolved. They were ganked, robbed, and left with nothing tangible to show for it. Any satisfaction they feel is fleeting because the justice system doesn’t involve or reward them directly. It’s player-killer versus system mechanics.

Our restitution system flips that dynamic entirely. The victim receives meaningful, visceral compensation. Imagine losing everything in an ambush, only to get a neatly packed stack of resources or gold in the mail a few days later. Better yet, you know your killer had to labor in the penal colony—cutting trees, mining rocks, and hunting animals—to deliver that compensation. It’s not just justice; it’s poetic justice. The victim becomes part of the process and is rewarded for their trouble, not just left to stew over their loss.

This is where our system stands apart: it creates a fun and engaging experience even for the prey. The compensation isn’t abstract or symbolic—it’s real, and it feels satisfying to know your killer literally worked off their debt to you. It transforms the justice system into a dynamic player-to-player interaction rather than just a punitive, system-driven process.

While Star Citizen and other games focus on deterrence and punishment for the killer, they rarely give victims a reason to stay engaged. Our system, however, ensures that even the most disastrous encounters in MO2 can have a silver lining for both parties—justice for the victim and a path to redemption for the killer.

Would love to hear your thoughts on how this approach compares, especially as someone familiar with Star Citizen’s justice system!

 

[Teknique]

Thanks, Teknique! The comparison to Star Citizen is definitely flattering—it’s one of the few games that tackles crime and justice in a meaningful way. However, our restitution system takes a fundamentally different (and I’d argue better!) approach by addressing the victim's experience in a way no game I’m aware of has managed.

In Star Citizen, while justice is being served in the abstract—bounties are issued, and offenders might end up mining in Klescher—it remains largely impersonal. Victims see that the killer is being punished, but their own loss still feels unresolved. They were ganked, robbed, and left with nothing tangible to show for it. Any satisfaction they feel is fleeting because the justice system doesn’t involve or reward them directly. It’s player-killer versus system mechanics.

Our restitution system flips that dynamic entirely. The victim receives meaningful, visceral compensation. Imagine losing everything in an ambush, only to get a neatly packed stack of resources or gold in the mail a few days later. Better yet, you know your killer had to labor in the penal colony—cutting trees, mining rocks, and hunting animals—to deliver that compensation. It’s not just justice; it’s poetic justice. The victim becomes part of the process and is rewarded for their trouble, not just left to stew over their loss.

This is where our system stands apart: it creates a fun and engaging experience even for the prey. The compensation isn’t abstract or symbolic—it’s real, and it feels satisfying to know your killer literally worked off their debt to you. It transforms the justice system into a dynamic player-to-player interaction rather than just a punitive, system-driven process.

While Star Citizen and other games focus on deterrence and punishment for the killer, they rarely give victims a reason to stay engaged. Our system, however, ensures that even the most disastrous encounters in MO2 can have a silver lining for both parties—justice for the victim and a path to redemption for the killer.

Would love to hear your thoughts on how this approach compares, especially as someone familiar with Star Citizen’s justice system!

I think the idea could work as long as its proportional.

-Chopping a stack of wood for killing a naked would be overly arduous.
-Evading capture for months to then have to pay 10000 restitutions would make little sense

Solution, the red shouldn't necessarily have to farm 1:1 everything thats being requested. They may be able to serve 36 hours played to settle all murdercounts and restitutions as a random example.
SV would have to make sure that the system can't be abused in some way. Kill your friend he receives a stack of wood in an esoteric location that would be otherwise hard to get, and SV has a very poor track record on anticipating these type of things.

 

[WeAreAllMortal]

Oh and while I'm on the topic of "fun for all", we really must look at the other side of the coin. Is this also fun for the reds? I say yes, here's why:

In our restitution system, we’ve focused heavily on the victim’s experience—ensuring it’s fun, rewarding, and immersive. But let’s not forget about the other half of this equation: the PK’s journey.

At first glance, a penal colony might sound like pure punishment, but when you consider the mechanics, it transforms into a gritty, survivalist mini-game—a kind of masochistic fun unique to MO2’s hardcore ethos. Let’s walk through it from the PK’s perspective:

• The Fall: You’re out hunting, or maybe even caught in a duel with another red. You lose. If it’s a guard or lawful player who takes you down, you’re transported to the penal colony, with your gear deposited on the Keeper. If it’s another PK, ditto, but most likely minus the wardrobe service, the irony and potential for hate-fueled vendettas are almost poetic—who doesn’t love a little drama among the wolves?
  
• Arrival: Stripped of your loot (looted if killed by a player or stored if by a guard), you find yourself on the island with some ugly basic prison fatigues in your pack. Alongside these, you’ll find essentials—a wood axe, a pickaxe, and a newbie sword. Want better gear? You’ll have to work for it.
  
• The Grind: Need another pickaxe, or fancy a bow to make hunting easier? The Quartermaster won’t hand it over for free. You’ll gather resources, vendor them to the Quartermaster, and purchase what you need with the proceeds. Piece of cake, given the ease of farming and vendoring right? Ah, but the prison QM only pays half and charges double compared to town NPCs! This forces reds to engage with the penal colony’s economy, adding an extra layer of realism and strategy.
  
• The Payoff: Every resource stack you gather clears another crime from your record. With each crime cleared, you’re one step closer to freedom. It’s not just a grind—it’s a narrative. You’re clawing your way back to the mainland, piece by piece, through sheer willpower and determination.
  
• The Drama: And let’s not forget the psychological aspect. As a PK, every second in the penal colony feels like a taunt, a challenge. You’ll stew over your defeat, maybe even plot revenge. The system doesn’t just punish—it fuels the kind of emotional engagement that keeps players hooked.

A Game-Changer for Hardcore PvP

What’s so unique about this system is that it doesn’t shy away from punishing PKs, but it does so in a way that’s true to the game’s hardcore identity. Instead of a sterile respawn screen, reds get an experience that’s as immersive and intense as the world outside the colony.

It’s a challenge, sure, but also an opportunity—a chance for reds to experience the peaceful life they’ve so often disrupted. They’ll become woodcutters, ore miners, humble hunters of bush pigs, gatherers of grass and cavolo! Having spent their careers looting stacks of resources from the corpses of their victims, they now have the rare privilege of living the life of those they habitually slay. Truly, a journey of the spirit and the mind!

And who knows? Perhaps some will return from this journey enlightened and reformed, dedicating the rest of their existence in Nave to humble farming, or even helping the weak and the poor. One can dream, after all! Either way, they’ll leave the island a different player—reformed and determined to live a better life, or consumed by bitter thoughts of vengeance, or, simply relieved it’s finally over and vowing to be a bit more circumspect next time around. Maybe they’ll rethink the number of corpses they leave behind or ponder how wise it really was to loot-kill ten blues and then casually ride past that guard tower. Live and learn, eh?!

 

[WeAreAllMortal]

I think the idea could work as long as its proportional.

-Chopping a stack of wood for killing a naked would be overly arduous.
-Evading capture for months to then have to pay 10000 restitutions would make little sense

Solution, the red shouldn't necessarily have to farm 1:1 everything thats being requested. They may be able to serve 36 hours played to settle all murdercounts and restitutions as a random example.
SV would have to make sure that the system can't be abused in some way. Kill your friend he receives a stack of wood in an esoteric location that would be otherwise hard to get, and SV has a very poor track record on anticipating these type of things.

Really appreciate the critique—this kind of feedback is what sharpens the system. Your observation about potential exploits? Spot on. Let me break it all down:

1. Better Choices for Reds​

Let’s address the idea of a red stacking up a colossal 10,000 murder counts (MCs) and facing insurmountable punishment. Here’s the thing: that’s a choice. As the saying goes, “Make bad choices, live with the consequences.” They have only themselves to blame.

It’s the PK equivalent of a blue noob casually wandering into Kranesh or JC—or, better yet, deciding to take a grand world tour through every red zone and town in the game, then complaining they’ve been ganked over 100 times and rage-quitting the game. Would anyone seriously say, “Oh no, ganking him ten times in a row in every town is so disproportionate!”? Of course not. Even other blues would roll their eyes and mutter, “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”. Oh and let's not forget the inevitable “this game's not for you! Try Mario Kart, but careful with the flying turtle shells!”.

The same principle applies here. If a red racks up thousands of murder counts and ignores every opportunity to settle restitution, they’ve effectively dug their own grave.

The proposed system already gives reds plenty of chances to reduce their burden. A victim’s claim is usually reasonable—some gold or a manageable stack of resources. A red who approaches these claims strategically can avoid punishment stacking up. But if they repeatedly ignore them, that’s on them. Punishment, harsh as it might feel, is the logical consequence of their own choices.

2. Proportional Punishment Isn’t Punishment​

You raised a valid concern about punishment needing to be proportional to the crime. Here’s the rub: proportional punishment isn’t punishment at all.

If a murderer can kill someone, loot their gear, and only face a penalty equal to what they’ve stolen, there’s no deterrent. At worst, they break even—and for most reds, that’s just the cost of doing business.

True punishment must exceed the crime. It’s the sting of real consequences that makes a red think twice before ganking another innocent or looting every last item off their corpse. Restitution isn’t just about balance; it’s about creating meaningful risks for the predator.

3. The Ultimate Solution? Stop Serial Ganking Naked Noobs!​

Here’s a radical idea: maybe don’t gank every naked noob you see. I know—it’s shocking. But seriously, maybe don’t gank the noob ghosting down to JC for a skill book. Maybe skip the guy wielding a rusty sword in a newbie tunic at Fab graveyard. And perhaps pass on the solo adventurer grinding at a bandit camp.

Instead, how about a bit of observational skill? Like, “Hmm, this guy’s been chopping wood for an hour, and he’s got a fine steed with big bags parked next to him. Bet he’s hauling a few nice stacks!”

Good reds already know this, in fact everyone knows this! They don’t just murder willy-nilly; they weigh the risk and reward of every kill. And if they’re smart, they settle the claims of weaker victims while saving their reputation for the bigger hauls.

4. Reality Check: 10,000 MCs?​

Let’s be real—10,000 murder counts is a wild exaggeration. Most reds won’t come close. For the rare few who do? Sorry, lads, but maybe tone it down. And by tone it down, I mean tone it down a whole lot.

Here’s a more realistic scenario: let’s say a prolific PK racks up 10,000 murder counts over three years (around 64 per week). Under a broken system with no consequences, this might be plausible. But in a functional system like this, where players can settle claims? That number would plummet.

Stop ganking naked noobs? You’re down to 16 MCs per week. Settle claims from every reasonable victim? Down to 8. Even if they manage to avoid capture for a month, that’s 32 stacks to farm. Yes, that’s a lot—but by week two, any smart PK would start settling claims to keep their numbers manageable.

And if they don’t? Well, that’s their choice. Punishment is supposed to hurt—it’s why it’s called punishment.

5. Exploits and Fixes​

You’re absolutely right to flag the potential exploit of funneling resources to towns via the penal colony. It’s a clever catch—and one we’ve addressed with two simple fixes:

1. Localized Claims:
   When a victim files a claim, they do so at the Justiciar of the town where the crime occurred. Restitution packages are then delivered only to the courier of that town. Furthermore only resources that are readily available around that town AND in the colony are presented for selection on the Justiciar interface. For example, in Fabernum, victims can demand whitewood, dapplewood, or greywood—but not firmwood or spongewood, as those resources don’t grow outside Fabernum. This ensures restitution resources align with the local ecosystem, preventing the penal colony from becoming a resource pipeline.
   
2. Inconvenient Farming:
   The penal colony isn’t designed for efficiency or convenience. There are no horses or beasts of burden to haul resources, and the Bailiff is intentionally located far from resource spawn points. Reds will have to trek back and forth, hauling everything by hand. Farming in the colony is intentionally backbreaking—exactly what you’d expect from a punitive system.

With these measures, restitution remains a form of justice, not a shortcut for resource logistics.

6. Punishment as a Gameplay Loop​

Finally, let’s not forget the fun factor. This system isn’t just about punishment—it’s a survivalist mini-game. Reds get to experience the life of the players they usually prey on: chopping wood, mining ore, and hunting bush pigs. It’s ironic, immersive, and a little masochistic—perfect for MO2. Every stack you chop clears a crime, every resource you gather brings you closer to freedom, and the back-and-forth trekking to the Bailiff? That’s not inconvenience—it’s justice.

Now lest one blanch at the idea of dozens of full stacks: the resource stack sizes are fully adjustable, allowing the devs to fine-tune the punishment to strike the right balance between deterrence and playability. For example, they could start with smaller stacks—say, 1,000 units instead of 10,000—making the initial implementation less daunting for reds. At roughly 30 minutes to gather a 10,000-unit stack, even a red with 10 murder counts could clear their penalty in just about five hours of focused work. But with stacks of 1000, they're looking at a paltry half hour to gather 10. Ok, we're looking at multiple resource types, which makes for more running around, but let's say one hour. That's not a lot for ten counts! For a red with fewer counts, obviously the time drops even further, some will spend only ten minutes on the island to work off two or three counts requiring small stacks.

While this is perhaps too lenient to act as a real deterrent, it provides a starting point. If crime stats don’t drop and the system fails to discourage reckless behavior, stack sizes can easily be increased—doubling, tripling, or even reverting to the full 10,000-unit stacks for harsher punishments. This adaptability ensures the system remains fair and responsive while still preserving the hardcore nature of MO2.

Closing Thoughts​

This system must strike a careful balance between punishment and playability. While it’s designed to be punishing for reds, it’s also meant to remain fair and aligned with MO2’s hardcore ethos.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these adjustments Tek!

 

[Teknique]

Really appreciate the critique—this kind of feedback is what sharpens the system. Your observation about potential exploits? Spot on. Let me break it all down:

1. Better Choices for Reds​

Let’s address the idea of a red stacking up a colossal 10,000 murder counts (MCs) and facing insurmountable punishment. Here’s the thing: that’s a choice. As the saying goes, “Make bad choices, live with the consequences.” They have only themselves to blame.

It’s the PK equivalent of a blue noob casually wandering into Kranesh or JC—or, better yet, deciding to take a grand world tour through every red zone and town in the game, then complaining they’ve been ganked over 100 times and rage-quitting the game. Would anyone seriously say, “Oh no, ganking him ten times in a row in every town is so disproportionate!”? Of course not. Even other blues would roll their eyes and mutter, “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”. Oh and let's not forget the inevitable “this game's not for you! Try Mario Kart, but careful with the flying turtle shells!”.

The same principle applies here. If a red racks up thousands of murder counts and ignores every opportunity to settle restitution, they’ve effectively dug their own grave.

The proposed system already gives reds plenty of chances to reduce their burden. A victim’s claim is usually reasonable—some gold or a manageable stack of resources. A red who approaches these claims strategically can avoid punishment stacking up. But if they repeatedly ignore them, that’s on them. Punishment, harsh as it might feel, is the logical consequence of their own choices.

2. Proportional Punishment Isn’t Punishment​

You raised a valid concern about punishment needing to be proportional to the crime. Here’s the rub: proportional punishment isn’t punishment at all.

If a murderer can kill someone, loot their gear, and only face a penalty equal to what they’ve stolen, there’s no deterrent. At worst, they break even—and for most reds, that’s just the cost of doing business.

True punishment must exceed the crime. It’s the sting of real consequences that makes a red think twice before ganking another innocent or looting every last item off their corpse. Restitution isn’t just about balance; it’s about creating meaningful risks for the predator.

3. The Ultimate Solution? Stop Serial Ganking Naked Noobs!​

Here’s a radical idea: maybe don’t gank every naked noob you see. I know—it’s shocking. But seriously, maybe don’t gank the noob ghosting down to JC for a skill book. Maybe skip the guy wielding a rusty sword in a newbie tunic at Fab graveyard. And perhaps pass on the solo adventurer grinding at a bandit camp.

Instead, how about a bit of observational skill? Like, “Hmm, this guy’s been chopping wood for an hour, and he’s got a fine steed with big bags parked next to him. Bet he’s hauling a few nice stacks!”

Good reds already know this, in fact everyone knows this! They don’t just murder willy-nilly; they weigh the risk and reward of every kill. And if they’re smart, they settle the claims of weaker victims while saving their reputation for the bigger hauls.

4. Reality Check: 10,000 MCs?​

Let’s be real—10,000 murder counts is a wild exaggeration. Most reds won’t come close. For the rare few who do? Sorry, lads, but maybe tone it down. And by tone it down, I mean tone it down a whole lot.

Here’s a more realistic scenario: let’s say a prolific PK racks up 10,000 murder counts over three years (around 64 per week). Under a broken system with no consequences, this might be plausible. But in a functional system like this, where players can settle claims? That number would plummet.

Stop ganking naked noobs? You’re down to 16 MCs per week. Settle claims from every reasonable victim? Down to 8. Even if they manage to avoid capture for a month, that’s 32 stacks to farm. Yes, that’s a lot—but by week two, any smart PK would start settling claims to keep their numbers manageable.

And if they don’t? Well, that’s their choice. Punishment is supposed to hurt—it’s why it’s called punishment.

5. Exploits and Fixes​

You’re absolutely right to flag the potential exploit of funneling resources to towns via the penal colony. It’s a clever catch—and one we’ve addressed with two simple fixes:

1. Localized Claims:
   When a victim files a claim, they do so at the Justiciar of the town where the crime occurred. Restitution packages are then delivered only to the courier of that town. Furthermore only resources that are readily available around that town AND in the colony are presented for selection on the Justiciar interface. For example, in Fabernum, victims can demand whitewood, dapplewood, or greywood—but not firmwood or spongewood, as those resources don’t grow outside Fabernum. This ensures restitution resources align with the local ecosystem, preventing the penal colony from becoming a resource pipeline.
2. Inconvenient Farming:
   The penal colony isn’t designed for efficiency or convenience. There are no horses or beasts of burden to haul resources, and the Bailiff is intentionally located far from resource spawn points. Reds will have to trek back and forth, hauling everything by hand. Farming in the colony is intentionally backbreaking—exactly what you’d expect from a punitive system.

With these measures, restitution remains a form of justice, not a shortcut for resource logistics.

6. Punishment as a Gameplay Loop​

Finally, let’s not forget the fun factor. This system isn’t just about punishment—it’s a survivalist mini-game. Reds get to experience the life of the players they usually prey on: chopping wood, mining ore, and hunting bush pigs. It’s ironic, immersive, and a little masochistic—perfect for MO2. Every stack you chop clears a crime, every resource you gather brings you closer to freedom, and the back-and-forth trekking to the Bailiff? That’s not inconvenience—it’s justice.

Now lest one blanch at the idea of dozens of full stacks: the resource stack sizes are fully adjustable, allowing the devs to fine-tune the punishment to strike the right balance between deterrence and playability. For example, they could start with smaller stacks—say, 1,000 units instead of 10,000—making the initial implementation less daunting for reds. At roughly 30 minutes to gather a 10,000-unit stack, even a red with 10 murder counts could clear their penalty in just about five hours of focused work. But with stacks of 1000, they're looking at a paltry half hour to gather 10. Ok, we're looking at multiple resource types, which makes for more running around, but let's say one hour. That's not a lot for ten counts! For a red with fewer counts, obviously the time drops even further, some will spend only ten minutes on the island to work off two or three counts requiring small stacks.

While this is perhaps too lenient to act as a real deterrent, it provides a starting point. If crime stats don’t drop and the system fails to discourage reckless behavior, stack sizes can easily be increased—doubling, tripling, or even reverting to the full 10,000-unit stacks for harsher punishments. This adaptability ensures the system remains fair and responsive while still preserving the hardcore nature of MO2.

Closing Thoughts​

This system must strike a careful balance between punishment and playability. While it’s designed to be punishing for reds, it’s also meant to remain fair and aligned with MO2’s hardcore ethos.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these adjustments Tek!

You haven't presuaded me, in fact you persuaded me negatively.

I just can't see a situation where, when a player dies or gets caught which is an inevitability, that they're character is effectively bricked, being a good solution or fair, or just.

You mentioned justice systems and proportionality is typically key to all modern justice systems. Camping a naked can still be considered a crime but compatiable with an empires goals. The naked who lost nothing but 30 min of their time has not been slighted meriting 1000 hours of the red’s time. “But then there should be some better system for that specific situation” I’ve been told that sweet sounding lie so many times. In fact saying it would qualify you to be henriks most trusted advisor.

Your argument of too bad so sad really leads to your larger motive, which is just don't do it outside of the rare target gank.

If I was a red player, which i'm not, I have 0 MCS on any of my chars, if faced with this system I would certainly quit. I also would probably siege you out of the game for even suggesting it if I had the power to do so, which I don’t.

Also the issue isn’t whether you’re smart enough to find a way to do it without exploits. I could find a monkey that’s able to parse out some of these ideas, but the issue is,can star vault? Their track record has been no. Only on this most recent patch have I seen something resembling a functioning game, to their credit.

 

[WeAreAllMortal]

You haven't presuaded me, in fact you persuaded me negatively.

I just can't see a situation where, when a player dies or gets caught which is an inevitability, that they're character is effectively bricked, being a good solution or fair, or just.

You mentioned justice systems and proportionality is typically key to all modern justice systems. Camping a naked can still be considered a crime but compatiable with an empires goals. The naked who lost nothing but 30 min of their time has not been slighted meriting 1000 hours of the red’s time. “But then there should be some better system for that specific situation” I’ve been told that sweet sounding lie so many times. In fact saying it would qualify you to be henriks most trusted advisor.

Your argument of too bad so sad really leads to your larger motive, which is just don't do it outside of the rare target gank.

If I was a red player, which i'm not, I have 0 MCS on any of my chars, if faced with this system I would certainly quit. I also would probably siege you out of the game for even suggesting it if I had the power to do so, which I don’t.

Also the issue isn’t whether you’re smart enough to find a way to do it without exploits. I could find a monkey that’s able to parse out some of these ideas, but the issue is,can star vault? Their track record has been no. Only on this most recent patch have I seen something resembling a functioning game, to their credit.

Tek, I appreciate you taking the time to engage, but I’m sensing we’ve hit an impasse here. Between your exaggerated hypotheticals, personal digs, and dismissal of the ideas as something a ‘monkey could parse,’ it feels less like you’re interested in discussing solutions and more in tearing down the conversation entirely. That’s fine, of course—you’re entitled to your opinion—but I think the discussion would benefit more from constructive feedback rather than hyperbole and thinly veiled insults.

If you have actual suggestions for improving the system, I’m all ears. If not, we can leave it here and agree to disagree.

 

[Teknique]

Tek, I appreciate you taking the time to engage, but I’m sensing we’ve hit an impasse here. Between your exaggerated hypotheticals, personal digs, and dismissal of the ideas as something a ‘monkey could parse,’ it feels less like you’re interested in discussing solutions and more in tearing down the conversation entirely. That’s fine, of course—you’re entitled to your opinion—but I think the discussion would benefit more from constructive feedback rather than hyperbole and thinly veiled insults.

If you have actual suggestions for improving the system, I’m all ears. If not, we can leave it here and agree to disagree.

I disagree completely. I haven’t made anything personal or nonconstructive.

I pointed out that bricking a character is not feasible. I outlined the unfairness inherent. I gave a specific scenario but there are many. Naked players seeking to intentionally give murdercounts was highly prevalent in the first game. And this system would certainly lead to that.

Stating that I would siege you out of the game if within my means was pragmatic non-personal. If stamping you out of existence was an option and it was in my interest I would do so. Which to be clear it is presently neither. This is for your informational purposes only as to what chess move one would take because you would no longer be a nuisance but a rival.

Star vault implementing systems poorly is not only valid but hyper valid.

I think you missed the mark here by a lot.