All this "patch work" instead of just nerfing the ONE racial problem...HILARIOUS.

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

Its not a lazy argument and you dont get to ignore it. You have to make an argument as to why Alvarins shouldnt get their speed nerfed. I heard none. The 500% dmg Thursar counters the "main trait shouldnt be nerfed" take that never made sense to bwgin with.

"It was your choice to play off meta that cant compete instead of meta thats op and cant die if played well" actual brain damage Alvarin main as usual lol

bro ive literally BEEN giving arguments or reasons why alvarins speed shouldnt get nerfed in this whole thread lol are u dense? the 500% damage is a random argument u made up to take away from my argument.. it means nothing bc its not actually a thing in the game lol.. just like alvarins having 500% speed lol
again iloros it isnt just speed that makes alvarins OP and you know this but you keep on crying about it like its the main or only thing that makes them meta lol..
and again your not answering the main question of what you specifically would do to the speed, numbers wise lol.. it just shows you have nothing to back up your argument of why alvarins speed should be nerfed lol..

 

[Iloros]

Since you’re such an experienced player, tell me—what, in your opinion, does racial balancing actually mean?

Where exactly are humans a “balanced” race? They have slightly more stat points than the other races, but their average stats don’t give them any real advantage in anything.
Spell it out for me: what is there about humans that would actually make me want to pick them?

Oghmirs and Thursars are stuck with magical vulnerability in exchange for defense and damage. And unlike speed, that defense and damage actually require skill to use effectively.

So what’s the downside for Alvarins?
They have almost the same number of stats as humans, and they also get access to a hybrid build (and why is that even a thing?).
The difference in health compared to humans is negligible.
They can use every weapon in the game.
They’ve got a legitimate “wall hack,” which is just nonsense in a game like this.
They have a reduced aggro range, which, combined with their speed, breaks dungeon algorithms and lets them ignore mobs.
They can jump over most obstacles in combat and take no fall damage.
They don’t have any real vulnerability—reduced physical damage taken isn’t a “vulnerability.”

First, I think it’s wrong to have agility as the only stat that determines movement speed. In my opinion, height should matter too: the longer the legs, the faster the character. As it turns out, speed matters more than raw damage—so we could easily drop the damage bonus in favor of more speed.
Having both super‑stats—fast running and fast combat mobility—is too much. We need a fairer split between what passive sprint and active maneuverability actually give. It shouldn’t be a whole bundle of advantages with zero penalty (like, say, a −6 kg armor weight reduction).

I won’t have any issues with the Alvarin’s speed if I get enemy‑control skills in return, or if the game introduces a rule where taking damage while running causes an injury that forces you out of the running state.
But right now, the game’s rules are entirely on one side’s side: the “auto‑save” mechanic of speed is just silly. Alvarins are basically the low‑skill option, and people use them because they’re tired of wasting time and resources on other races.

Unlike other racial abilities, which depend on the situation or the opponent’s actions, running depends only on the player. It shouldn’t have the same effective value as, say, an Oghmir’s defense or a Thursar’s attack.

As for magic and damage reduction—come on, and this is coming from someone with 6k hours in the game? Even if you weaken magic by 50%, it won’t change anything: hitting a target once or twice makes no real difference.

Magic in this game has a ton of problems:
- It’s way too easy and has no real consequences.
- Practically only Alvarins can avoid magical damage by breaking the distance; other races don’t have that option.
- Magic is unpredictable: you can only tell what spell was cast by its effect. Ecumenical spells are completely invisible.
- Mages in this game are like Thanos snapping their fingers and taking half a character’s health away from anyone.

None of this fits the rules of competitive player‑vs‑player conflict. The opponent should be able to tell what’s being used against them and have a real chance to avoid the damage, not just rely on passive tools like magic resistance.

What magic needs:

1. Spell costs should depend on the specific magic school’s progression, not on a single convenient “all‑schools” skill that lowers costs for everything—that’s just bad design.
2. Casting and charging should be different for each school, and players should be able to see which school a mage is currently using (including which spells they’ve memorized and are ready to cast).
3. All spells should have slowed travel and clear visual flight paths (you can balance it by increasing the area of effect). Only beam‑type spells (with instant activation) should be truly instant.
   Or add an extra short cast when activating a memorized spell: if you create a spell and don’t use it immediately (within 1 second), storing it in memory should require a brief recast (0.5–1 second) when you finally trigger it. Every action needs a clear visual effect.
4. Increase spell difficulty based on the caster’s state: standing still, moving, running, jumping, mounted (walking vs. fast run vs. gallop). Each situation should add its own difficulty modifier. If a cast is interrupted (including voluntarily), apply a “magic backlash” effect to the mage with all the fun consequences. Also penalize leaving a spell in memory without using it.

Mage gameplay shouldn’t be “pew‑pew.” It should depend not just on positioning, but also on following internal timings and directional rules for magic.

Why are fast Alvarin mages so overpowered? Because when they choose magic, they completely bypass all the race’s weaknesses and keep only the strengths. Fast mages have no real limitations except health—they’re basically playing Counter‑Strike with automatic rifles against opponents with knives. Why should some players have to risk and sweat while others just press a “win” button?

Bslance is quite simply a spectrum of viablility and appeal of all the possible options. Maximum perfect balance would be every single option having the same winrate and pickrate but it is not really achievable in games with differing options, so you just wanna reach high balance where everything is, in Mortals case lets say 20-30% pickrare. So Alvarins 25 Humans 30 Oghmirs 20 Thursars 25 is fine you could nerf Humans by a tiny bit and buff Humans but no need because its all fluid next patch such close % could turn depending on how people feel, now you should always try to bakance thoufh because its so low effot and people like it.

To reach balance you simply adjust the stats any utility of a race till it reaches similar pickrate/winrate as the other ones.

 

[Iloros]

bro ive literally BEEN giving arguments or reasons why alvarins speed shouldnt get nerfed in this whole thread lol are u dense? the 500% damage is a random argument u made up to take away from my argument.. it means nothing bc its not actually a thing in the game lol.. just like alvarins having 500% speed lol
again iloros it isnt just speed that makes alvarins OP and you know this but you keep on crying about it like its the main or only thing that makes them meta lol..
and again your not answering the main question of what you specifically would do to the speed, numbers wise lol.. it just shows you have nothing to back up your argument of why alvarins speed should be nerfed lol..

500% isnt random at all, it completely cou ters the "main trait shouldnt get nerfed" which your whole thing is centered around, you keep saying "bUt aLvArInS nEeD sPeEd" alright bro Thursars need damage keep them at 500%.

"It means nothing because its not actually in the game" so you are outting yourself as uneducated, you dont understand rhe use of hypotheticals in arguments? You know how low that is?

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

Since you’re such an experienced player, tell me—what, in your opinion, does racial balancing actually mean?

Where exactly are humans a “balanced” race? They have slightly more stat points than the other races, but their average stats don’t give them any real advantage in anything.
Spell it out for me: what is there about humans that would actually make me want to pick them?

Oghmirs and Thursars are stuck with magical vulnerability in exchange for defense and damage. And unlike speed, that defense and damage actually require skill to use effectively.

So what’s the downside for Alvarins?
They have almost the same number of stats as humans, and they also get access to a hybrid build (and why is that even a thing?).
The difference in health compared to humans is negligible.
They can use every weapon in the game.
They’ve got a legitimate “wall hack,” which is just nonsense in a game like this.
They have a reduced aggro range, which, combined with their speed, breaks dungeon algorithms and lets them ignore mobs.
They can jump over most obstacles in combat and take no fall damage.
They don’t have any real vulnerability—reduced physical damage taken isn’t a “vulnerability.”

First, I think it’s wrong to have agility as the only stat that determines movement speed. In my opinion, height should matter too: the longer the legs, the faster the character. As it turns out, speed matters more than raw damage—so we could easily drop the damage bonus in favor of more speed.
Having both super‑stats—fast running and fast combat mobility—is too much. We need a fairer split between what passive sprint and active maneuverability actually give. It shouldn’t be a whole bundle of advantages with zero penalty (like, say, a −6 kg armor weight reduction).

I won’t have any issues with the Alvarin’s speed if I get enemy‑control skills in return, or if the game introduces a rule where taking damage while running causes an injury that forces you out of the running state.
But right now, the game’s rules are entirely on one side’s side: the “auto‑save” mechanic of speed is just silly. Alvarins are basically the low‑skill option, and people use them because they’re tired of wasting time and resources on other races.

Unlike other racial abilities, which depend on the situation or the opponent’s actions, running depends only on the player. It shouldn’t have the same effective value as, say, an Oghmir’s defense or a Thursar’s attack.

As for magic and damage reduction—come on, and this is coming from someone with 6k hours in the game? Even if you weaken magic by 50%, it won’t change anything: hitting a target once or twice makes no real difference.

Magic in this game has a ton of problems:
- It’s way too easy and has no real consequences.
- Practically only Alvarins can avoid magical damage by breaking the distance; other races don’t have that option.
- Magic is unpredictable: you can only tell what spell was cast by its effect. Ecumenical spells are completely invisible.
- Mages in this game are like Thanos snapping their fingers and taking half a character’s health away from anyone.

None of this fits the rules of competitive player‑vs‑player conflict. The opponent should be able to tell what’s being used against them and have a real chance to avoid the damage, not just rely on passive tools like magic resistance.

What magic needs:

1. Spell costs should depend on the specific magic school’s progression, not on a single convenient “all‑schools” skill that lowers costs for everything—that’s just bad design.
2. Casting and charging should be different for each school, and players should be able to see which school a mage is currently using (including which spells they’ve memorized and are ready to cast).
3. All spells should have slowed travel and clear visual flight paths (you can balance it by increasing the area of effect). Only beam‑type spells (with instant activation) should be truly instant.
   Or add an extra short cast when activating a memorized spell: if you create a spell and don’t use it immediately (within 1 second), storing it in memory should require a brief recast (0.5–1 second) when you finally trigger it. Every action needs a clear visual effect.
4. Increase spell difficulty based on the caster’s state: standing still, moving, running, jumping, mounted (walking vs. fast run vs. gallop). Each situation should add its own difficulty modifier. If a cast is interrupted (including voluntarily), apply a “magic backlash” effect to the mage with all the fun consequences. Also penalize leaving a spell in memory without using it.

Mage gameplay shouldn’t be “pew‑pew.” It should depend not just on positioning, but also on following internal timings and directional rules for magic.

Why are fast Alvarin mages so overpowered? Because when they choose magic, they completely bypass all the race’s weaknesses and keep only the strengths. Fast mages have no real limitations except health—they’re basically playing Counter‑Strike with automatic rifles against opponents with knives. Why should some players have to risk and sweat while others just press a “win” button?

picking a Human means choosing the "jack-of-all-trades" race that excels at flexibility, hybrid builds, and group utility rather than specialized min-maxing..
i think u do need skill to play alvarin imo just like all the other races. theres skilled and unskilled players bro.
we've already spoke about the "downsides" of the alvarins youve mentioned and how other things about alvarin need to be changed/removed/nerfed.
bro are u actually as dumb as iloros? you said even nerfing magic by 50% wouldnt do anything when it actually would nerf the overall damage u do lol and thus increasing the TTK. but no ones asking for magic to be nerfed by 50% so idk what your getting at.. i mentioned magic interruption should be a thing as it dumb for any mage to stand literally next to you and still be able to cast while taking melee hits lol.. also overall damage for alvarins was mentioned by me bc they obviously can do too much damage imo which is another factor in why theyre OP, if you dont know this then theres no point in explaining it to you.
the problems you listed for magic are laughable bc as its mainly the spells not being interruptable being teh main problem.alvarins arent the only ones that can avoid magic damage, human mages/fat mages if you need more of an explanation on why this is you should probably play the game more. SV are addressing the invisibility of spells and you can see in the latest PTR that they will have visual effects. you contradicted yourself on your last point bc you said even if you nerfed magic by 50% it wouldnt change anything yet you mention that mages in teh game are like thanos and can half a players HP instantly lol.
im not even going to get into your magic changes at the bottom bc idk what or how to fix magic if im being honest except for footys being able to interrupt spellcasters if their melee attack hits them and does a certain amount of damage. this is mainly to reduce the mages that can literally just stand next to you jumping running circles around you spamming lesser heals and spells while you do damage to them. it makes no sense as to why they wouldnt get interuppted. it would make those mages have to play more cautiously just like veelas would if everything i mentioned about them was nerfed.

 

[Dargelar]

@ humans: mounted. A lot of people are as triggered by mounted as they are by alv.

Basic flaw for humans: to be a successful hybrid, you want break away SPEED.

Humans could get wep out casting, they could be the one race that actually casts without being interruptable. Many ways to go.

The problem w/ magic is as some dude said, you shouldn't be able to just stack all the schools. If they want to truly make it action point based, then they need to really look at the point investment it takes to add certain spells, like what 59 for death hand?

I'm so tired of talking about this shit, but it pains me to see people actually trying to discuss shit. It's like... in the game I play, which is trending toward GOOD, NBA 2k: players have attributes and then they have BADGES which are, I dunno, kinda like clades in a way, and those badges can have levels. They finally made it so each badge has a different value, which goes up the higher level it is, and you have a pool of 'badge points.'

That was a big step for the game, and yea I WAS TELLING THEM TO DO THAT, along with many people, I am sure. You have to be governed by more than break points to keep you from picking all of the best shit. That is 100x on MO2.

Unfort, SV is not trying to make a good game, so you are TROLLING YOURSELF. I agree w/ what other people said in that we should find a different game with some level of potential and just boost them.

Stop trolling yourself by trying to debate MO balance.

Personally, I actually relax by spending time in this kind of meditative “theorycrafting.”

“Humans: mounted. A lot of people are as triggered by mounted as they are by Alv.” — Probably the same goes for all other races on mounts. The problem is the same as with Alvarins: the rider has total initiative, and there are no real mechanics to counter them. It’s all obvious and painfully simple.

A character on a horse doesn’t suffer any penalties while riding in combat:
- They don’t get tired, even though in reality you can only really rest on a horse while it’s standing still or walking slowly. In any other situation, your legs are so tense that you’d be sweating after just 10 minutes.
- The penalties to accuracy, spell‑casting difficulty, and stamina cost when attacking from horseback are laughably small. The devs seem to genuinely believe that shooting from horseback is the same as standing on solid ground.
- There’s no decent mechanic to dismount, which means you can end up with “disabled” characters who can’t move but are somehow still effective in combat.

“Humans could get wep out casting, they could be the one race that actually casts without being interruptable. Many ways to go.” — I see very few good suggestions; mostly it’s just more broken mechanics like this one. Why create a mechanic and then completely bypass it? For example, I don’t get why they gave bows a base deviation when shooting and then almost completely removed it once you max out the relevant skills.

Having a character with access to a wide variety of tools has never been and never will be the problem in this game. The real issues start when there are no counter‑mechanics or no unique way to make those tools actually matter. Even if you’ve unlocked all the magic schools, you should still have to know how to use them, and there should be mechanics that make doing so anything but simple.

In this game, the meta isn’t just about a strong choice — it’s about an option that’s unavailable to other classes and is completely dominant.

Let me guess: “Death Hand” is a powerful spell that only really works for fast mages, right? And why is that? Because a slap to the face doesn’t affect the mobility of these speedrunners at all. It’s just a broken game mechanic that makes this possible — nothing more, nothing less.

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

500% isnt random at all, it completely cou ters the "main trait shouldnt get nerfed" which your whole thing is centered around, you keep saying "bUt aLvArInS nEeD sPeEd" alright bro Thursars need damage keep them at 500%.

"It means nothing because its not actually in the game" so you are outting yourself as uneducated, you dont understand rhe use of hypotheticals in arguments? You know how low that is?

bro alvarins dont have +500% more fuckign speed than every other race bro.. lol neither do thursars having the same on melee damage, your making random arguments to suit your own in such a fucking dumb low iq way.. using hypotheticals in a argument where its not needed and the obvious speaks for itself means your the dumb uneducated person in teh discussion bro.. YOUR STILL NOT TELLING US WHAT SPECIFCALLY YOU GOING TO CHANGE ABOUT THE BASE SPEED OF ALVARINS LOL.. youve been coping this whole time.. imagine crying about alvarins speed for months/years now and still you havent got a logical idea as how to nerf it actually.. lol isnt that shit funny? surely by now you know exactly what it needs to be nerfed to for it not to be OP.. we'lll be waiting for your response to specifically state your idea iloros.. and dont switch topics again its gettign tiresome answering you but you not answering the main question..

 

[Dargelar]

picking a Human means choosing the "jack-of-all-trades" race that excels at flexibility, hybrid builds, and group utility rather than specialized min-maxing..
i think u do need skill to play alvarin imo just like all the other races. theres skilled and unskilled players bro.
we've already spoke about the "downsides" of the alvarins youve mentioned and how other things about alvarin need to be changed/removed/nerfed.
bro are u actually as dumb as iloros? you said even nerfing magic by 50% wouldnt do anything when it actually would nerf the overall damage u do lol and thus increasing the TTK. but no ones asking for magic to be nerfed by 50% so idk what your getting at.. i mentioned magic interruption should be a thing as it dumb for any mage to stand literally next to you and still be able to cast while taking melee hits lol.. also overall damage for alvarins was mentioned by me bc they obviously can do too much damage imo which is another factor in why theyre OP, if you dont know this then theres no point in explaining it to you.
the problems you listed for magic are laughable bc as its mainly the spells not being interruptable being teh main problem.alvarins arent the only ones that can avoid magic damage, human mages/fat mages if you need more of an explanation on why this is you should probably play the game more. SV are addressing the invisibility of spells and you can see in the latest PTR that they will have visual effects. you contradicted yourself on your last point bc you said even if you nerfed magic by 50% it wouldnt change anything yet you mention that mages in teh game are like thanos and can half a players HP instantly lol.
im not even going to get into your magic changes at the bottom bc idk what or how to fix magic if im being honest except for footys being able to interrupt spellcasters if their melee attack hits them and does a certain amount of damage. this is mainly to reduce the mages that can literally just stand next to you jumping running circles around you spamming lesser heals and spells while you do damage to them. it makes no sense as to why they wouldnt get interuppted. it would make those mages have to play more cautiously just like veelas would if everything i mentioned about them was nerfed.

“Picking a Human means choosing the ‘jack‑of‑all‑trades’ race that excels at flexibility, hybrid builds, and group utility rather than specialized min‑maxing.”

But we don’t actually get that “jack‑of‑all‑trades” feel. Maybe I’d agree if the Human advantage wasn’t just a measly 50 active points (and that benefit fades next to the buffs other races get), but instead gave full access to an extra skill: 100 points in clades, plus the chance to get another 200 in mastery (while other races only get 100). All races have 1300 points; Humans have 1500 — great, so you can be both a warrior and an archer at once, max out both stances and Thirst on the warrior.

Two full skills would actually be a real strength compared to other races. But these tiny point bonuses against super‑speed, super‑defense, and super‑damage? That’s just laughable.

Humans don’t have any advantage that’s comparable to what other races offer, and players have voted with their feet by completely avoiding them.
Please spell out what unique group utility a Human brings that no other race can replace? I’m genuinely open to being wrong about my assessment.

“Bro, are you actually as dumb as Iloros?” — I’m not asking you to read my posts; you can ignore them if they offend you or feel beneath your dignity.

Yeah, a 50 % damage reduction won’t change the outcome of a fight. If I can attack the enemy without taking serious damage myself, I’ll still kill the target—it doesn’t matter if it takes one minute or two. The only thing that matters is the result, and that won’t change. There’s no contradiction here; it’s just your own internal conflict with how you interpreted my idea.

Clearly, you’re missing the Thanos irony: the mage just picks a target, and the target loses something.
Alvarins avoid magical damage by simply moving out of the spell’s range, while Humans and bulky mages only reduce the damage they take via resistance. That’s a huge difference—like the difference between blocking and parrying.

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

“Picking a Human means choosing the ‘jack‑of‑all‑trades’ race that excels at flexibility, hybrid builds, and group utility rather than specialized min‑maxing.”

But we don’t actually get that “jack‑of‑all‑trades” feel. Maybe I’d agree if the Human advantage wasn’t just a measly 50 active points (and that benefit fades next to the buffs other races get), but instead gave full access to an extra skill: 100 points in clades, plus the chance to get another 200 in mastery (while other races only get 100). All races have 1300 points; Humans have 1500 — great, so you can be both a warrior and an archer at once, max out both stances and Thirst on the warrior.

Two full skills would actually be a real strength compared to other races. But these tiny point bonuses against super‑speed, super‑defense, and super‑damage? That’s just laughable.

Humans don’t have any advantage that’s comparable to what other races offer, and players have voted with their feet by completely avoiding them.
Please spell out what unique group utility a Human brings that no other race can replace? I’m genuinely open to being wrong about my assessment.

“Bro, are you actually as dumb as Iloros?” — I’m not asking you to read my posts; you can ignore them if they offend you or feel beneath your dignity.

Yeah, a 50 % damage reduction won’t change the outcome of a fight. If I can attack the enemy without taking serious damage myself, I’ll still kill the target—it doesn’t matter if it takes one minute or two. The only thing that matters is the result, and that won’t change. There’s no contradiction here; it’s just your own internal conflict with how you interpreted my idea.

Clearly, you’re missing the Thanos irony: the mage just picks a target, and the target loses something.
Alvarins avoid magical damage by simply moving out of the spell’s range, while Humans and bulky mages only reduce the damage they take via resistance. That’s a huge difference—like the difference between blocking and parrying.

listen thats what human is supposed to be by SV description its on them to actually make it what its supposed to be.. tbh i dont think alvarin has super defense/ super damage its just overtuned more than what it should.. and keeping the base speed and nerfing those two things plus the alvarin sight, alvarin speed clade, stam regen or whatever else would be better than just nerfing the speed so much so it'll be pointless even playing the class, bc instead of having the 1 thing other races dont means you going to have to stand and bang at a x2 disadvantage (HP/ Damage output) imo.
i dont think humans are supposed to have any 1 advantage over the other 3 races as its supposed to be a balance of all. Human builds can be a really good at one particular aspect like paladins, they can be good mages but not the best mages, they can be good warriors but not the best warriors.. its the way its supposed to be. i would actually like to see more human builds out there that arent MAs lol to add more variation to the game.
im pretty sure a -50% damage reduction would actually change some fights bro, you cant just blanket statement things like that when there so many other variables at play during fights in mortal. every fight usually isnt the same.
youve also got MR's mages can cast or MR pots etc to avoid magic damage.. your thanos argument makes no sense bro its literally how the game works.. if a mage can get within range to cast spells why shouldnt he? its just like an archer hitting someone from range like what do u want to happen in that situation? them not to do damage?

 

[Emdash]

Personally, I actually relax by spending time in this kind of meditative “theorycrafting.”

It's a waste of time. 1.

2. You aren't thinking because you aren't trying to understand. Or, you type well and cannot understand.

If you want to 3. debate me PM me or something. PLZ donut invite me to reply any more to this nonsense.

THAT BEING SAID ' a couple things,'

You said broken mechanics. You said why add something and then completely ignore it. That's what they have done with everything. Human does not have those things, that is why they are trash. AIYE.

You said that IN THIS GAME having access to a wide variety of tools is not a problem. That is untrue. My previous post tried to address that. There may not be a perfect balance reached, but giving each 'tool' a value and making you pick and choose underneath the umbrella of your total toolbox (for, say magic) is a great starting point for a game with SO MUCH SHIT and shit that didn't really have a lot of thought given as to how it fits together.

Example: Death hand. You said death hand is only good on speed mages. That is untrue. Why can you run while casting death hand? When the rule set was created, you had to stand still to charge a spell. Now, you can both run AND be uninterruptable.

That being said, AGAIN, tho you are not the original GHOSTVISIONARY (I am...), if you do continue to theory craft the game, I look forward to you getting some of your ideas implemented. I think you understand some of the issues, and the more you think about it, the more you will understand.

Have fun PLZ don't quote me again or, rather, I leave now. HF. GL. #SVSEXCULT

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

Remove the Alvarin passive speed clades gifts and the race is still fast, and guess what, its still OP. The amount of utility in the Alvarin clade wheel is disgusting.

 

[Jaygrae]

Its simple, Alvarins are OP, best class in the game. Have been now ever since their buffs, SV DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT...and the best SV analyse lately?

"Humans are the most placed race."

LOL LOL LOL Ya think!!?? I wonder why that is!! OHHHHHhhhhh you mean all "alt characters/accounts" FOR THEIR CRAFTERS!!!! OH WOW, WHAT A SHOCKER, WAY TO GET THAT DATA SV!! WOW!

You literally cant make this stuff up. MA's destroying the game, Alvarins still playing Star Wars Jedi master...population is STILL decreasing, but hey! Its gonna turn around guys!

 

[Iloros]

bro alvarins dont have +500% more fuckign speed than every other race bro.. lol neither do thursars having the same on melee damage, your making random arguments to suit your own in such a fucking dumb low iq way.. using hypotheticals in a argument where its not needed and the obvious speaks for itself means your the dumb uneducated person in teh discussion bro.. YOUR STILL NOT TELLING US WHAT SPECIFCALLY YOU GOING TO CHANGE ABOUT THE BASE SPEED OF ALVARINS LOL.. youve been coping this whole time.. imagine crying about alvarins speed for months/years now and still you havent got a logical idea as how to nerf it actually.. lol isnt that shit funny? surely by now you know exactly what it needs to be nerfed to for it not to be OP.. we'lll be waiting for your response to specifically state your idea iloros.. and dont switch topics again its gettign tiresome answering you but you not answering the main question..

It doesnt matter if Akvarins have exact number speed as I proposrd hypothetical Thursar has, the hypothetical proves your "we shouldnt nerf their main trait because main trait" wrong. Thats all it is.

Quite simply, any nerf with the right number can work including speed.

 

[Iloros]

Its simple, Alvarins are OP, best class in the game. Have been now ever since their buffs, SV DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT...and the best SV analyse lately?

"Humans are the most placed race."

LOL LOL LOL Ya think!!?? I wonder why that is!! OHHHHHhhhhh you mean all "alt characters/accounts" FOR THEIR CRAFTERS!!!! OH WOW, WHAT A SHOCKER, WAY TO GET THAT DATA SV!! WOW!

You literally cant make this stuff up. MA's destroying the game, Alvarins still playing Star Wars Jedi master...population is STILL decreasing, but hey! Its gonna turn around guys!

Nah Alvarins are the most played by far confirmed by FarmerJoe Humans are second

But yes it id embarassing what they are doing with not nerfing Alvarins

 

[Dargelar]

listen thats what human is supposed to be by SV description its on them to actually make it what its supposed to be.. tbh i dont think alvarin has super defense/ super damage its just overtuned more than what it should.. and keeping the base speed and nerfing those two things plus the alvarin sight, alvarin speed clade, stam regen or whatever else would be better than just nerfing the speed so much so it'll be pointless even playing the class, bc instead of having the 1 thing other races dont means you going to have to stand and bang at a x2 disadvantage (HP/ Damage output) imo.
i dont think humans are supposed to have any 1 advantage over the other 3 races as its supposed to be a balance of all. Human builds can be a really good at one particular aspect like paladins, they can be good mages but not the best mages, they can be good warriors but not the best warriors.. its the way its supposed to be. i would actually like to see more human builds out there that arent MAs lol to add more variation to the game.
im pretty sure a -50% damage reduction would actually change some fights bro, you cant just blanket statement things like that when there so many other variables at play during fights in mortal. every fight usually isnt the same.
youve also got MR's mages can cast or MR pots etc to avoid magic damage.. your thanos argument makes no sense bro its literally how the game works.. if a mage can get within range to cast spells why shouldnt he? its just like an archer hitting someone from range like what do u want to happen in that situation? them not to do damage?

I’m sorry—some of the meaning might have gotten lost in the English translation, but the point of “But these tiny point bonuses against super speed, super defense, and super damage?” was that we have races like Alvarin (super speed), Ogmire (super defense), and Tursar (super damage), while Humans only get 50 active stat points. I wasn’t attributing all of this to Alvarins alone.
Humans have no real room for self‑expression in MO2. PvE “fulfillment” in a PvP game doesn’t count as viable gameplay. Whatever Humans can do, another race does better. From a PvP perspective, Alvarin is almost superior to Human in every way.

My suggestions don’t involve harshly nerfing speed. I want running speed (character positioning) and movement speed (a key combat parameter) to be treated as two different stats instead of one. And I’d like the differences to change in clusters rather than with every single point of Agility. This way, Ogmires wouldn’t fall so far behind Humans and Tursars in running, and a Human Khurit would have a clearly noticeable advantage—more than just “two steps faster” than everyone else.

I’m fine with Alvarin keeping dominance in positioning—but only there, not in mobility during combat. The current meta‑speed of Alvarin in melee breaks the game: only Alvarin can attack and immediately leave the enemy’s counterattack zone, so the opponent’s strike hits empty space. I want to minimize this “tag game” dynamic in melee for all races. If you come into melee, fight; if you run away, run away. That’s why I suggest stamina penalties for running: after you dash away, you shouldn’t have enough stamina to attack again right away.
Right now, we have Ogmires who can’t catch anyone, and Tursars who are forced to build meta‑builds because other builds aren’t viable due to the mobility gap. This severe speed‑based discrimination between races in the game’s core mechanic (melee fight) needs to go.

Overall, I don’t see any reason why Alvarins should have broad access to melee combat in the first place. Alvarins are good archers and mages—let them excel there instead, in exchange for weaker melee. If Alvarins are meant to be weaker overall, let the game reflect that. Make most two‑handed weapons (axes, hammers, and swords) largely unavailable to them due to strength requirements. Let them struggle to combine one‑handed weapons with shields. Leave them with spears and polearms for melee (via clans/factions) as their main close‑combat option.

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

It doesnt matter if Akvarins have exact number speed as I proposrd hypothetical Thursar has, the hypothetical proves your "we shouldnt nerf their main trait because main trait" wrong. Thats all it is.

Quite simply, any nerf with the right number can work including speed.

your hypothetical doesnt prove me wrong bro and it also doesnt prove you right, sorry to tell you (you seem to think your right about everything and everyone else is wrong).. thursar main "trait" is damage output, oghmir is their tankiness/HP, alvarins main "trai" is literally that of speed, wtf else could it be? everyone knows this but you and other people literally want to nerf it so its not a thing lol.. tell me youve never played alvarin without telling me lol..
if any race/builds main "trait" was obviously OP i would want it nerfed but thats the thing the baseline speed of alvarin isnt OP and you and the other guys in this thread even know this bc youve given multiple different reasons/examples of other things that are more OP than the baseline speed of alvarin so your whole argument to nerf baseline speed for alvarin is so full of shit lol.. and again you cant give me numbers bc you dont know the numbers bro, you dont know what to nerf the baseline speed for alvarin to.. and you can just admit that its not that big of a deal, bc it would actually be more work to try and figure that shit out rather than just nerf everything else that was discussed that actually makes the race OP.. alvarin clade speeds/cooldowns, overall HP, ability to wear heavy armor, the damage they can currently do, alvarin sight, stam regen, overall stam etc.. all these are way easier to nerf to an acceptable number where it less time consuming and less chance of bricking the entire race just to appease peopel like you who want to play the slowest characters in the game nut want to be able to chase down the objectively fastest race.

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

I’m sorry—some of the meaning might have gotten lost in the English translation, but the point of “But these tiny point bonuses against super speed, super defense, and super damage?” was that we have races like Alvarin (super speed), Ogmire (super defense), and Tursar (super damage), while Humans only get 50 active stat points. I wasn’t attributing all of this to Alvarins alone.
Humans have no real room for self‑expression in MO2. PvE “fulfillment” in a PvP game doesn’t count as viable gameplay. Whatever Humans can do, another race does better. From a PvP perspective, Alvarin is almost superior to Human in every way.

My suggestions don’t involve harshly nerfing speed. I want running speed (character positioning) and movement speed (a key combat parameter) to be treated as two different stats instead of one. And I’d like the differences to change in clusters rather than with every single point of Agility. This way, Ogmires wouldn’t fall so far behind Humans and Tursars in running, and a Human Khurit would have a clearly noticeable advantage—more than just “two steps faster” than everyone else.

I’m fine with Alvarin keeping dominance in positioning—but only there, not in mobility during combat. The current meta‑speed of Alvarin in melee breaks the game: only Alvarin can attack and immediately leave the enemy’s counterattack zone, so the opponent’s strike hits empty space. I want to minimize this “tag game” dynamic in melee for all races. If you come into melee, fight; if you run away, run away. That’s why I suggest stamina penalties for running: after you dash away, you shouldn’t have enough stamina to attack again right away.
Right now, we have Ogmires who can’t catch anyone, and Tursars who are forced to build meta‑builds because other builds aren’t viable due to the mobility gap. This severe speed‑based discrimination between races in the game’s core mechanic (melee fight) needs to go.

Overall, I don’t see any reason why Alvarins should have broad access to melee combat in the first place. Alvarins are good archers and mages—let them excel there instead, in exchange for weaker melee. If Alvarins are meant to be weaker overall, let the game reflect that. Make most two‑handed weapons (axes, hammers, and swords) largely unavailable to them due to strength requirements. Let them struggle to combine one‑handed weapons with shields. Leave them with spears and polearms for melee (via clans/factions) as their main close‑combat option.

i'd want alvarins to be weaker in overall damage and HP, reduction in armor weight they can wear to where they cant wear full steel sets, speed clades speed nerf/ increased cooldown and the cringe alvarin sight removed would be the main ones that are easily the most OP things about the class.. i think they should be mainly focused around weakspots via daggers, swords, bows and whatever else weakspots imo. and make mercy daggers have a use maybe mainly against mages in non heavy armor or something.. give alvarins more of a reason to wear medium armors have them give a bonus stat chance for weakspotting potential idk.. the game just needs more variation in this way i feel.
if it was changed alvarins would 100% not be able to stand and bang in melee fights as much as they do currently and would have to play more careful, maybe have to play in a group more etc as we all know veelas can pretty much play solo atm without any problem.

 

[Iloros]

your hypothetical doesnt prove me wrong bro and it also doesnt prove you right, sorry to tell you (you seem to think your right about everything and everyone else is wrong).. thursar main "trait" is damage output, oghmir is their tankiness/HP, alvarins main "trai" is literally that of speed, wtf else could it be? everyone knows this but you and other people literally want to nerf it so its not a thing lol.. tell me youve never played alvarin without telling me lol..
if any race/builds main "trait" was obviously OP i would want it nerfed but thats the thing the baseline speed of alvarin isnt OP and you and the other guys in this thread even know this bc youve given multiple different reasons/examples of other things that are more OP than the baseline speed of alvarin so your whole argument to nerf baseline speed for alvarin is so full of shit lol.. and again you cant give me numbers bc you dont know the numbers bro, you dont know what to nerf the baseline speed for alvarin to.. and you can just admit that its not that big of a deal, bc it would actually be more work to try and figure that shit out rather than just nerf everything else that was discussed that actually makes the race OP.. alvarin clade speeds/cooldowns, overall HP, ability to wear heavy armor, the damage they can currently do, alvarin sight, stam regen, overall stam etc.. all these are way easier to nerf to an acceptable number where it less time consuming and less chance of bricking the entire race just to appease peopel like you who want to play the slowest characters in the game nut want to be able to chase down the objectively fastest race.

I mean you can deny logic all you want. It proves that main traits can and should be nerfed sometimes.

You are going in circles. There is no argument to support nerfing Alvarin speed is a bad idea.

 

[Iloros]

i'd want alvarins to be weaker in overall damage and HP, reduction in armor weight they can wear to where they cant wear full steel sets, speed clades speed nerf/ increased cooldown and the cringe alvarin sight removed would be the main ones that are easily the most OP things about the class.. i think they should be mainly focused around weakspots via daggers, swords, bows and whatever else weakspots imo. and make mercy daggers have a use maybe mainly against mages in non heavy armor or something.. give alvarins more of a reason to wear medium armors have them give a bonus stat chance for weakspotting potential idk.. the game just needs more variation in this way i feel.
if it was changed alvarins would 100% not be able to stand and bang in melee fights as much as they do currently and would have to play more careful, maybe have to play in a group more etc as we all know veelas can pretty much play solo atm without any problem.

I will say though that weakspot should def scale based on how bad your armor is so you weakspot mages a ton and if someone is in oghmium yeah you aint weakspotting. Current weakspot balance is goofy. It has to stay super low chance and now post Sarducca low % to be balanced vs top tier armor ajd it dont even matter vs loer tier armor with many % defense modifiers like brace akhbond trinkets.

But theres a plethera of issues to be addressed before that.

 

[Dargelar]

i'd want alvarins to be weaker in overall damage and HP, reduction in armor weight they can wear to where they cant wear full steel sets, speed clades speed nerf/ increased cooldown and the cringe alvarin sight removed would be the main ones that are easily the most OP things about the class.. i think they should be mainly focused around weakspots via daggers, swords, bows and whatever else weakspots imo. and make mercy daggers have a use maybe mainly against mages in non heavy armor or something.. give alvarins more of a reason to wear medium armors have them give a bonus stat chance for weakspotting potential idk.. the game just needs more variation in this way i feel.
if it was changed alvarins would 100% not be able to stand and bang in melee fights as much as they do currently and would have to play more careful, maybe have to play in a group more etc as we all know veelas can pretty much play solo atm without any problem.

The problem is this: the Alvarin’s high mobility is universal and fits any role or class, and their physical weakness is easily compensated with magic. We can’t nerf them to the point where they become unplayable.

They don’t need any bonus from medium armor (that’s unfair, especially considering the stamina penalty for wearing heavy armor and the extra active‑point cost). Instead, they should be focused on weapons with specific properties—on what “weak spots” are meant to support. Why give them swords so they can stay the same unkillable greatsword masters as before? Lightweight, comfortable weapons for duels should be the advantage of other races—those races could then use them to defend against the Alvarins’ rapid attacks. If an Alvarin wants a two‑handed sword or axe, let them seek out kronite or some other lightweight metal, with all the associated penalties and costs. Otherwise, they should take a spear and make use of their speed and positioning—but be limited in their attack options.

Regarding daggers: I don’t think they belong in the main hand. They should be an off‑hand secondary weapon, like a shield or a torch. They’d provide attacks through combos like “shield bash” (block‑and‑strike) and allow the player to use the dagger’s adrenaline abilities from the action bar (almost all of them are instant, if I remember right). This is simple and fair, unlike the absurdity of slicing through armored knights with a dagger or parrying two‑handed axe strikes. Daggers shouldn’t even be able to block or parry, especially against two‑handed weapons (because that would realistically mean a broken arm). Better yet, they shouldn’t have that capability at all, given their attack speed—this would be much more in line with basic balance.

On the topic of mechanical variety:

I feel like “weak spots” aren’t implemented well enough in the game. Based on them, we could build a unique damage‑application system for all piercing damage. Instead of having “piercing defense” as a flat damage reduction stat, it should become a chance‑based stat that determines whether an attack is deflected.

There would be three states: ricochet (full deflection), partial penetration (intermediate result), and penetration (full damage). On one side we have the piercing defense value, and on the other, the “weak spot” chance. If the defense value is higher, the chance of ricochets increases; if the “weak spot” is higher, the chance of penetration goes up. “Weak spot” works on any body part, but each body part has its own damage reduction coefficient.

Move “weak spot” from Agility to Intelligence (think of it as “sharp eye”). This way, Alvarins won’t get guaranteed dominance with bows without sacrificing stats. They’ll still be strong via clades—that’s enough.

This way, simply hitting the target isn’t enough anymore. Players must either choose targets that match their level (medium or lightly armored) or invest in “weak spot” through stats, mastery, and skills. I’d like to see another sub‑skill in Anatomy that boosts “weak spots”: knowing human anatomy means knowing weak points. This creates a completely different gameplay dynamic and balance.

For melee weapons, it’s straightforward: where you hit determines how much damage is dealt and how much it’s reduced. An additional benefit should be a lower strength requirement.

With bows, things are a bit more complex. We have three arrow types and a firing distance for each bow—we’ll build the system around those. All arrows have the same base damage, but there are important differences:

- Bodkin arrow – a standard arrow with no bonuses. The only upside is that you get 50 % more of them (75 arrows total).
To make the bonus feel more meaningful, switching arrow types should be a full action, similar to swapping a piece of armor.
- Broadhead arrow – a sharp arrow that adds “weak spots” but reduces damage by 20 % (relative to the base).
- Longbow arrow – increases damage by 20 % (relative to the base) but reduces “weak spots”.

And that’s not all for bows: damage still depends on the bow’s range. If you hit a target at 50 % of the bow’s max range, you deal 100 % base damage (not counting the arrow type). Beyond that, the farther the impact point is from the center of the target, the more the damage is reduced—up to a maximum of 50 % reduction. If you hit too close, the arrow hasn’t fully accelerated; if you hit too far, it’s lost some of its power. Each bow has its own range, so players will have to learn and adapt to keep the right distance.

When standing on foot, the bow mostly swings up and down. On a mount, it also gets a left‑right deviation that depends on the mount’s speed type. In other words, the experience of shooting on foot and on a mount doesn’t overlap. Relevant skills slightly reduce this effect.

Bow shooting now has two stages: drawing the bow and “aiming”. You can’t aim before the bow is drawn. Instead of charging the arrow’s power, you charge the “weak spot” value—at 100 %, it reflects the character’s full stat.

Bow types:
- Short bow – short range, straight trajectory, can be used from a mount. You can draw the bow while moving and aim on the move (with a penalty).
- Long bow – medium range, parabolic trajectory, cannot be used from a mount. You can draw while moving, but aiming requires a stationary position.
- Asymmetrical bow – long range, high‑arc lobbed shots at ~45 degrees, can be used from a mount. You can draw while moving, but aiming requires a stationary position. Not effective at short ranges or in areas with roofs and ceilings. Requires dedicated sniper‑style skills.

 

[aplasticbagforahelmet]

I mean you can deny logic all you want. It proves that main traits can and should be nerfed sometimes.

You are going in circles. There is no argument to support nerfing Alvarin speed is a bad idea.

no ones denying any logic you just havent gave any logical reason to nerf the main thing that makes alvarins an alvarin lol.. when theres literally other things that are clearly more OP than the speed that should be looked at first..
bro there literally is an argument to support nerfing baseline alvarin speed is a bad idea.. the main reason its a bad idea is bc its supposed to be able to have speed and get out of situations, its not a class thats supposed to stand and bang like thursars and oghmirs bro lol.. but thats the only reason why you want the speed nerfed and nothing else, so you can have x2 the advantage over them