Why and how the removal of Trade-offs for specific gear, the MRT Change and high tier Metals impact the battlefield and how it destoyed the balance

Anabolic Man

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Why and how the removal of Trade-offs for specific gear, the MRT Change and high tier Metals impacted the battlefield and how the changes destoyed the balance of Groupfights in such a drastic way, that it make no sense to fight anymore, as groups in "All Day Gear" such as Steel cannot prevent the collapse of their frontline and midlane against Groups in high end Gear, because of the missing damage output.​


I'm trying to explain the problem in as much detail as possible, so the developers can adjust their game, to be in a state, where it makes sense to fight again, which unfortunately isn't the case at the moment against certain groups, because we can't win in our current gear against guys in Oghmium.

Why should somone fight, if he don´t have the slightest chance to win without spending
thousands of gold that they don't have ?

High Tier Gear was always considered optional, before we got the MRT Change and sadly seems to be mendatory now, which is very very bad for the game ! Now let me explain why !

The Magic Reflect Change (MTR Change)​

The changes to Magic Reflect a couple month ago that removed the Trade-off for using Magic Reflect makes groups in good gear invincible to Players in decent Steel Gear and therefore the Magic Reflect change needs to be undone.​


The Battlefield before the Patch

Before this change, only the best players in a guild would ask one of the mages to cast a Magic Reflect on them. Usually only the players who made themselves a name and classified from the opposing team as a special threat and therefore try to focus them with Magery in order to take them out of the fight as quickly as possible. The trade-off of a Magic Reflect was that a friendly Mage's healing was reflected. The Magic Reflect prevented allied Mages from healing unless that player was previously wounded by magic.
You had to know the number of mages and decide, if the Magic Reflect is worth it, if you want to push the mages of your opponents, which is usually the job of the more experienced players. This instilled some respect in the players whose task it is to break through enemy lines to kill enemy mages. That respect has been lost and that's one of the biggest problems this game has right now. With Oghmium Armor you can ignore damage from swords and you are also not vulnerable to magic in the beginning of the fight. if you immediatly push through, as soon as the fights starts, if all your teammates are protected by Magic Reflect. This happens nearly every fight against certain groups. Before the Magic Reflect change, the next higher gear level was always optional. The Players that dived with MR always had a good Pot to heal. Unfortunately that has changed. Now too man players have a good pot and MR as there is no Trade-off. There should also be a tade-off for pots. Perhaps one could be poisoned for a short time afterwards, or regenerate the stamina more slowly.




The Situation after the MR Change

This Magic Reflect change has totally wrecked hybrid Paladin gameplay, as the midline and frontline has to collapse against well-geared players without your Team in "All Day Gear" is able to do anything about it, and I'd like to explain why that is the case against high Tier Gier users.


As a human hybrid (Midlane Character), I have always drawn an imaginary line through the center of the battlefield and have never pushed straight ahead or retreated in a straight line to avoid being hit by magic or arrows in my light armor. I tried to stay centered and always ran from left to right along the imaginary line. I healed the Frontline and corrupted the enemy. As soon as a player overextended, I corrupted him and hit them in the back with my sword. That was the only time I used my weapon to prevent the frontline from collapsing, what is happening, if too many players push through. Before the Magic Reflect change, most of the fighting was positional and the team had to think carefully about when to push and when to break through the enemy line to kill the mages in the backline.


The Hybrid Midlane greatly reduced enemy player breakthrough and resulted in amusing fights I've never seen in a game before. The fights sometimes lasted up to 15 minutes. We held training sessions all the time and had a lot of fun. That fun just isn't there after the Magic Reflect Change, reducing fights from 15 minutes to sometimes 1-2 minutes, if you meet such a Group in high end Stuff or full of human Paladins spamming brainless AOE damage. They simply push through with no respect killing the mages in the beginning of the fight and therefor just destoy the opposing team.

That is the reason some fights are not enyojable anymore and demotivate the new players, if they farm the whole day for their gear and loose it in a minute, because everyone has Magic Reflect activated and the Frontline and Mages are simply disrespected and ignored. The battlefield went from trench warfare to a "Blitzkrieg" chaos, Both sides push through to the mages right at the beginning of the fight, without being able to stop them as a hybrid. Before you can even spurt and currupt the enemies, they have already pushed through the centerline towards the mages and cannot be focused by the mages, because there reflect is still up.
Before the Magic Reflect Change, only a few players broke through. These players could be focused by the fatmages, but when that many players break through, the mages can only run away. If the opposing team is wearing tungsteel armor and oghmium weapons, not even the front and centerline together can prevent the breakthrough, because the steel swords just can't do enough damage against such armor.


It is now much harder to see who is a friend or an enemy, If the allies and opponents mix right at the beginning of the battle, resulting in Chaos.
We still don't have an option that somehow visually highlights our opponents.

In Addition, the Human has a Clade Gift, which reduces team damage by 50% and allows the Human Necromancer to spam brainless Auw Surge while breaking through the frontline and this is what many of the exprienced guilds do all the time. It doesn't matter if he hit Teammates in this Chaos... The Cladegilft should be removed. It doesn't require any skill at all!


Look at this player and how he got hit 10 times from his own teammates with Auw surge for only 3-8 Hp each time, while our team got hit 24 dmg or more...
Auw Surge's nerf wasn't necessary since it's an important tool for the Necromancer against Zergs. The problem is the human Glaide Gift, that allow you to spam AOE damage brainless through your whole Frontline ! I was totally destroyed by the Auw Surge and couldn't do anything about it.
The opposing team played very well and Gbunny made good calls. This feedback isn't unique to this fight, but it does give a good indication of how some teams trying to break through right at the start of the fight.



Before the Magic Reflect change, only a few selected players tried to push through the midline and how half of the team try this
simultaneously.

This ruins the fun of the game and reduces the time of a battle from 15 minutes to 1 minute. The guilds in such gear are aware of this and just ignore the entire front and midlane in most of the fights and just run through to kill the mages.
This is also the reason why they mostly attack the players in the dungeons. After all, the mages can't run into the mobs.
Even the enemies joke about how quickly the fights are over with their coordinated Auw surge spamming builds and call the room with the many Zombies in the Necro dungeon the Koto room, because the zombies die there so quickly... That wasn't the case a few months ago and you all know it !


The developers should playtest the high tier Metals in combination with magic reflect and a group of Auw surge spaming humans in Groupfights ! SV completely destroyed group PVP with some of the patches. The big battles are no longer fun because we just can't win in our gear and becuause some of the fights are so short. Especially the fights in dungeons and in specific chokes, if so many players of the opposing team run brainless Auw surge spammers, that do not even hurt the teammates as much as the enemies.



Oghmium is way too powerful and mostly used inside the dungeon fights to steal other players loot.
This material is not 20% better then steel, but 100% better and this is another problem! This combined with the Magic Reflect change makes some groups of players invincible to players in steel gear. There is no real Tradeoff for using an Ognium Sets, the Towershield or the magic Reflect.
The difference between Seedew Potions and Salvia Potions is way too big!
Purify pots mean that the Ogmir can hardly be countered. His healing cannot be prevented if he can rid himself of corrupts.



Plz fix that !
 
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Emdash

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I'm trash at MO AND I'm quitting BUT I will response to your theory post! Cuz in my brain I can PLAY WELL! Nah, I can play well sometimes in life, too!

You're right about Magic Reflect, but I dunno what to say? Seems to not be changing?

The problem with better weps is they are supposed to curve up. Cron has always been nutso lite and ogh has always been nutso strong. I never minded the str of ogh before (weps) because people seemed to choose cron for weight. So OGH weps def need to hit hard, but it should be diminishing.

I remember hearing the game is balanced off steel, but really it's more like balanced off mola or some form of carapace. It's balanced w/ steel hitting those armors, and with fighter stats (decent dmg bonus, agg stance) you can get some good hits. I liked seeing steel swords hit for about 30-40 (steel v mola, early MO1?), but they don't. I wear khurite splinted pretty much constantly because it can keep my dmg under 50 unless I get faced with a super nuts wep, but even stuff like a steel axe needs a good swing, basically a parry counter, to get over 50 on that. Or someone who is like maxxx thur.

Rememm, the armor patch was a long time ago tho. Remember Pluro's vid about not having enough stam to kill someone. That's been an issue forever. It was a decision they made, by doing it, they made the game less cut throat and made most people less jumpy in general while playing. It also took the life out of the game haha. But yea MATH is good. You take meta weps and put them against meta armors on meta classes and decide what you feel the damage should be like, and then TRY IT.

TU armor has always been nuts, too. Now that pierce seems an even bigger part and they removed spear weak spots (ahem ahem!!) TU armor is even more nutzer. You need to make friends w/ the WAR CLUB.

I still support gear differential. I don't support: duping, exploiting, etc... TC automines. That was the shit that made me mad at high tier stuff. I think they should make armor weaker in general, across the board, then level out the top, and fix the mid level armors. Fix it so that you can't put heavy mats on light armors just like it is with heavy armors NEEDing heavy mats. Make 15-16 wt armor battle armor, but more for hybrids. Right now, it's not awful as a front line armor. It is vs steel, ogh, or whatever, but vs like rep carp, pansar... it works? Esp considering how easy it is to get incis or mola + all the points you save. IMO of course, and dstance is effective at keeping the highs leveled out, even when you are in bone armor.


Now, steel can be available if people actually do the work and make it. They need to kinda work on mining-->extracting, too, but that's another story. But yea given the investment TU is def the best armor set, if you can wear it. The difference from simply steel to TU armor is ridiculous.

One would assume it's like silk vs iron silk, but TU is still a nub mat. Anyone can get TU if they grind it out, even without fabri. You don't even need the same mats diversity of mats as steel, you need fewer.
 
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Jackdstripper

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Yes but cronite and oghmium are incredibly hard to get and ridiculously expensive to buy. It should be insanely good. Most people will never get an oghmium set unless they loot it on the battlefield.

Also cronite and oghmium reduce melee damage but not magic. You can still get maged banged by 4 naked mages. So its not nearly as invincible as you make it seem.

In the end its not the armour you wear, but how good you are at parrying, that keeps you alive. unless its a mage bang kind of party in which case you just alt F4 and go cry in the shower.
 

Anabolic Man

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Yes but cronite and oghmium are incredibly hard to get and ridiculously expensive to buy. It should be insanely good. Most people will never get an oghmium set unless they loot it on the battlefield.

Also cronite and oghmium reduce melee damage but not magic. You can still get maged banged by 4 naked mages. So its not nearly as invincible as you make it seem.

In the end its not the armour you wear, but how good you are at parrying, that keeps you alive. unless its a mage bang kind of party in which case you just alt F4 and go cry in the shower.

For the players in the north, these materials are not that difficult to obtain. However, it takes a certain investment of time,
which was greatly reduced by the Extraction time change. This is a good change, but the blastfurnice should have a higher timer than the other machines. You can also craft high tier materials in the south, but Skadite is currently unusable for weapons. The material is just too heavy.

Of course someone can be magedbanged with an Ognium set,
but i am speaking about the push in the beginning of the fight.
Such a strong Armor in combination with the MR change leads to a loss of respect. Such gear allow you to ignore the front and midline and run streight towards the backline and now there are also resist and magic reflect potions. In addition, the good rings and amulets drop much more often in the North. They can have fairly high resistances. That in combination with an Oghnium armor is simply op.


I'm also all for the time investment being rewarded and the Oghnium being better, but not that much better, so that using such materials is consided optional. Otherwise it forces the new Guilds and Players from the south to farm like crazy to keep up with some of the guilds that are guarding every lucratice Dungeon in the north.
Every good armor has to have a weak spot. I don't know exactly how heavy an Ognium set is, but a piece would have to be crafted in low dense and from a different material to be able to wear the armor.

I personally hope that the fireballs and aoe spells will remove the Magic Reflect from multiple players. This should also be the case for miasma.

I think it ruins the fun of the game, if the fights are too short, if you can just push through. Elementalism, on the other hand, results in players having an immense advantage on Highground. This leads to many fights not taking place, because one of the teams insists on holding a point/coke on the map that is almost impossible to conquer without sacrificing half of your team.
Maybe you should be able to fend off the fireballs with a targeted shield push to reduce the damage a bit. The human clade that causes your team to take 50% less damage should be replaced with another clade. Maybe only for a short time and not permanently.
The range of shield pushes can be increased again, after the patch, that flagged players criminal after 3 pushes.


The spells themselves definitely look cool.


I'm puzzled as to how a keep such as the Artisans Keep can be taken with Elementalists on the walls. This eternally long bridge makes the Keep almost impregnable.

The changes to make Towershields heavier was a good adjustment, but not enough in my opinion.

Alvarins can no longer use Towershield unless they are wearing ultralight armor. I think that's good, because an Ogmir can land a maximum of 2-3 hits, if an Alvarin is standing close range to him and both characters are running at the same time.
He is dependent on finishing the Alvarin with the bow and the Towershield covered the entire body.
The ALvarin ran outside of combat mode as fast as the Ogmir in combat mode and was able to gain the required distance with his buff beforehand.

Now it needs some trade-off for Ogmirs too. The drastically reduced stamina consumption of shields when blocking was good, but this change shouldn't apply to tower shields.

 
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Emdash

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I felt OGH should be, as armor, about what TU is, and they should push steel down a lil, p sure TU and OG are close in wt, but og heavier, or was. Cron should have a bonus to resists like mbe extra slash or something? I dunno if having it be just better and lighter is good, either. It should have a downside lol.

No reason we should be way over 70 prots w/ what the game is aghh.
 
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Anabolic Man

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I felt OGH should be, as armor, about what TU is, and they should push steel down a lil, p sure TU and OG are close in wt, but og heavier, or was. Cron should have a bonus to resists like mbe extra slash or something? I dunno if having it be just better and lighter is good, either. It should have a downside lol.

No reason we should be way over 70 prots w/ what the game is aghh.

I totally agree. I also would like to have a more unique look to Oghnium. It looks like a bit like shiny Messing.
 

Jackdstripper

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For the players in the north, these materials are not that difficult to obtain.
This is the understatement of the year. The simple fact that they manage to live in the north is a feat in itself. You try and live in the north and have “easily obtainable” Oghmium.
If it was easy everyone would have it.

I'm also all for the time investment being rewarded and the Oghnium being better.
Okey….

Every good armor has to have a weak spot.
The weak spot is magic.


I think it ruins the fun of the game, if the fights are too short, if you can just push through.
This is completely a personal preference. Some people might like that.

I do agree with you that all armours could be toned down a bit. No armour should give 95% damage reduction, but Oghmium should be vastly superior to steel and Tung. After all that is the absolute pinnacle of armour tier in this game. End level stuff.


Im not going to comment on the 10 topics you keeps jumping off to because they are different subjects.
 

Anabolic Man

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This is the understatement of the year. The simple fact that they manage to live in the north is a feat in itself. You try and live in the north and have “easily obtainable” Oghmium.
If it was easy everyone would have it.


Okey….


The weak spot is magic.



This is completely a personal preference. Some people might like that.

I do agree with you that all armours could be toned down a bit. No armour should give 95% damage reduction, but Oghmium should be vastly superior to steel and Tung. After all that is the absolute pinnacle of armour tier in this game. End level stuff.


Im not going to comment on the 10 topics you keeps jumping off to because they are different subjects.

If SV would reduce the defencive of all armors and revert the MR Change it would be fine. Ognium should be better as other materials but not twice as good, so that not even the front and centerline together can prevent a breakthrough, becuase tung and ogh armors are that defencive, that the opposing team can´t be stopped from doing a push right at the beginning of the fight, because Steel weapons can´t deal enough damage to stop them. Such defencive armors with everyone haveing MR up is simply broken. It ruins the fights inside dungeons ! That's why some Guilds use their Oghnium sets in the dungeons. They are kinda sure to not lose them there.
The mages cannot run into the mobs or position themselves well, if they push through.
Since the dungeons are currently the main hotspot for PVP fights and we don't have any world events that trigger a big fight in the open world every 2-3 hours, the game is pretty shitty at the moment. For the players that search PVP, aswell as for the new players
attempt to explore the dungeons.
 
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Kynyante

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Why and how the removal of Trade-offs for specific gear, the MRT Change and high tier Metals impacted the battlefield and how the changes destoyed the balance of Groupfights in such a drastic way, that it make no sense to fight anymore, as groups in "All Day Gear" such as Steel cannot prevent the collapse of their frontline and midlane against Groups in high end Gear, because of the missing damage output.​


I'm trying to explain the problem in as much detail as possible, so the developers can adjust their game, to be in a state, where it makes sense to fight again, which unfortunately isn't the case at the moment against certain groups, because we can't win in our current gear against guys in Oghmium.

Why should somone fight, if he don´t have the slightest chance to win without spending
thousands of gold that they don't have ?

High Tier Gear was always considered optional, before we got the MRT Change and sadly seems to be mendatory now, which is very very bad for the game ! Now let me explain why !

The Magic Reflect Change (MTR Change)​

The changes to Magic Reflect a couple month ago that removed the Trade-off for using Magic Reflect makes groups in good gear invincible to Players in decent Steel Gear and therefore the Magic Reflect change needs to be undone.​


The Battlefield before the Patch

Before this change, only the best players in a guild would ask one of the mages to cast a Magic Reflect on them. Usually only the players who made themselves a name and classified from the opposing team as a special threat and therefore try to focus them with Magery in order to take them out of the fight as quickly as possible. The trade-off of a Magic Reflect was that a friendly Mage's healing was reflected. The Magic Reflect prevented allied Mages from healing unless that player was previously wounded by magic.
You had to know the number of mages and decide, if the Magic Reflect is worth it, if you want to push the mages of your opponents, which is usually the job of the more experienced players. This instilled some respect in the players whose task it is to break through enemy lines to kill enemy mages. That respect has been lost and that's one of the biggest problems this game has right now. With Oghmium Armor you can ignore damage from swords and you are also not vulnerable to magic in the beginning of the fight. if you immediatly push through, as soon as the fights starts, if all your teammates are protected by Magic Reflect. This happens nearly every fight against certain groups. Before the Magic Reflect change, the next higher gear level was always optional. The Players that dived with MR always had a good Pot to heal. Unfortunately that has changed. Now too man players have a good pot and MR as there is no Trade-off. There should also be a tade-off for pots. Perhaps one could be poisoned for a short time afterwards, or regenerate the stamina more slowly.




The Situation after the MR Change

This Magic Reflect change has totally wrecked hybrid Paladin gameplay, as the midline and frontline has to collapse against well-geared players without your Team in "All Day Gear" is able to do anything about it, and I'd like to explain why that is the case against high Tier Gier users.


As a human hybrid (Midlane Character), I have always drawn an imaginary line through the center of the battlefield and have never pushed straight ahead or retreated in a straight line to avoid being hit by magic or arrows in my light armor. I tried to stay centered and always ran from left to right along the imaginary line. I healed the Frontline and corrupted the enemy. As soon as a player overextended, I corrupted him and hit them in the back with my sword. That was the only time I used my weapon to prevent the frontline from collapsing, what is happening, if too many players push through. Before the Magic Reflect change, most of the fighting was positional and the team had to think carefully about when to push and when to break through the enemy line to kill the mages in the backline.


The Hybrid Midlane greatly reduced enemy player breakthrough and resulted in amusing fights I've never seen in a game before. The fights sometimes lasted up to 15 minutes. We held training sessions all the time and had a lot of fun. That fun just isn't there after the Magic Reflect Change, reducing fights from 15 minutes to sometimes 1-2 minutes, if you meet such a Group in high end Stuff or full of human Paladins spamming brainless AOE damage. They simply push through with no respect killing the mages in the beginning of the fight and therefor just destoy the opposing team.

That is the reason some fights are not enyojable anymore and demotivate the new players, if they farm the whole day for their gear and loose it in a minute, because everyone has Magic Reflect activated and the Frontline and Mages are simply disrespected and ignored. The battlefield went from trench warfare to a "Blitzkrieg" chaos, Both sides push through to the mages right at the beginning of the fight, without being able to stop them as a hybrid. Before you can even spurt and currupt the enemies, they have already pushed through the centerline towards the mages and cannot be focused by the mages, because there reflect is still up.
Before the Magic Reflect Change, only a few players broke through. These players could be focused by the fatmages, but when that many players break through, the mages can only run away. If the opposing team is wearing tungsteel armor and oghmium weapons, not even the front and centerline together can prevent the breakthrough, because the steel swords just can't do enough damage against such armor.


It is now much harder to see who is a friend or an enemy, If the allies and opponents mix right at the beginning of the battle, resulting in Chaos.
We still don't have an option that somehow visually highlights our opponents.

In Addition, the Human has a Clade Gift, which reduces team damage by 50% and allows the Human Necromancer to spam brainless Auw Surge while breaking through the frontline and this is what many of the exprienced guilds do all the time. It doesn't matter if he hit Teammates in this Chaos... The Cladegilft should be removed. It doesn't require any skill at all!


Look at this player and how he got hit 10 times from his own teammates with Auw surge for only 3-8 Hp each time, while our team got hit 24 dmg or more...
Auw Surge's nerf wasn't necessary since it's an important tool for the Necromancer against Zergs. The problem is the human Glaide Gift, that allow you to spam AOE damage brainless through your whole Frontline ! I was totally destroyed by the Auw Surge and couldn't do anything about it.
The opposing team played very well and Gbunny made good calls. This feedback isn't unique to this fight, but it does give a good indication of how they're trying to break through right at the start of the fight.



Before the Magic Reflect change, only a few selected players tried to push through the midline and how half of the team try this
simultaneously.

This ruins the fun of the game and reduces the time of a battle from 15 minutes to 1 minute. The guilds in such gear are aware of this and just ignore the entire front and midlane in most of the fights and just run through to kill the mages.
This is also the reason why they mostly attack the players in the dungeons. After all, the mages can't run into the mobs.


The developers should playtest the high tier Metals in Groupfights ! SV completely destroyed group PVP with some of the patches. The big battles are no longer fun because we just can't win in our gear. Especially not in a dungeon and in chokes, if so many players of the opposing team run brainless Auw surge spammers, that do not even hurt the teammates as much as the enemies.



Oghmium is way too powerful and mostly used inside the dungeon fights to steal other players loot.
This material is not 20% better then steel, but 100% better and this is another problem! This combined with the Magic Reflect change makes some groups of players invincible to players in steel gear. There is no real Tradeoff for using an Ognium Sets, the Towershield or the magic Reflect.
The difference between Seedew Potions and Salvia Potions is way too big!
Purify pots mean that the Ogmir can hardly be countered. His healing cannot be prevented if he can rid himself of corrupts.



Plz fix that !
so what ur saying is mages need to be nerfed I agree fuck mages atleast nerf the ecumenical school when u have spiritism necro and ele for high dmg spells ecu is a beginner skill line nerf the dmg please thanks you dont need to 3 shot oghmirs with hitscan no effort spells. tlash fulm and flamestrike dmg should be nerfed by atleast 20 raw dmg tbh cause with trinkets on an actual mage build u can flamestrik for like 97 and tlash for 70s thats OP... dont let me forget taht oghmium armor cost 100s of hours to make a set and cost thousands of gold and u get 3 shot by a mage with 2 gold regs LMAO BALANCED... also magic reflect potions and magic defensive potiuons u drink 1 pot that cost you 100s of gold still not blanaced comapared to how cheap a mage is once u get them built. 3 SHOT BTW. HITSCAN NOICE
 

Anabolic Man

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so what ur saying is mages need to be nerfed I agree fuck mages atleast nerf the ecumenical school when u have spiritism necro and ele for high dmg spells ecu is a beginner skill line nerf the dmg please thanks you dont need to 3 shot oghmirs with hitscan no effort spells. tlash fulm and flamestrike dmg should be nerfed by atleast 20 raw dmg tbh cause with trinkets on an actual mage build u can flamestrik for like 97 and tlash for 70s thats OP... dont let me forget taht oghmium armor cost 100s of hours to make a set and cost thousands of gold and u get 3 shot by a mage with 2 gold regs LMAO BALANCED... also magic reflect potions and magic defensive potiuons u drink 1 pot that cost you 100s of gold still not blanaced comapared to how cheap a mage is once u get them built. 3 SHOT BTW. HITSCAN NOICE

i would defenetly rather see a damage nerf of the fatmage then a MR Spell without a trade-off.
Then the mage would have to have more mana.
Especially as a Dexmage you lack the mana to finish a footie, if he smokes his pipe and drinks a pot.

Especially Fatmages on horses are more than just op.
Against the Archer you can equip yourself with a thick shield, which you carry with you in your inventory, but against a Fatmage you've kinda pulled the arse card.

Personally, I like the Tower Shield nerf, because a player playing the Ogmir Class can only land a maximum of 2-3 hits on an Alvarin and then has to finish the Alvarin with the bow, if both chars start running from point blank range at the same time.
Finishing an Alvarin with a bow was impossible, if he had a tower shield equipped. It's good that this class can no longer carry a tower shield without a trade-off.

We really need to give SV more combat feedback. Somehow the forum is used far too seldom.
 
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