The Casino to MMO paradigm - Understanding Persistence in gaming and gaming psychology. @Starvault

fartbox

Active member
Apr 29, 2023
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Have you ever considered to the relationship between MMO's and Casinos?

1. Randomness - Both MMO's and Casinos have a high degree of randomness, namely in RNG or "Rolls".
2. Always open - Both MMO's and Casinos are always open, they can be enjoyed at any time on any day and in any weather.
3. Fun with friends / Fun without friends - Both Casinos and MMO's are able to be played alone or in a group and the experience differs only slightly between the two.
4. Incentives for long time patronage - Both casinos and MMO's offer incentives the longer you play and the more often you play
5.Persistent - The games never end, they endure indefinitely against the house.

How is this different from other games humans might enjoy? Like for example a game of soccer?

Soccer can only be played in groups.
Soccer can only be played during certain hours and certain weather.
Soccer has low degree of randomness and very predictable results. A pro soccer team will always beat a novice soccer team.
Soccer is not persistent, the game has a clear start and finish.


At any given time on earth are there more humans playing in casinos or are playing soccer? The answer is always casino's.

Why?
Accessibility and most importantly winning is possible for anyone at anytime.

What is winning in a casino? Beating the house
What is winning in a MMO? Beating the house

Why are humans so attracted to beating the house, despite knowing the house has an advantage at all times and in every situation?
Hero complex: All humans are attracted to the idea of being the hero. Winning against the odds is the definition of heroism...the underdog. Even the villains wish they could be Hero's. Because the Hero is loved by everyone, the Hero enjoys admiration, respect and the benefits of heroism. Beating the house, against the odds, fulfills that hero complex momentarily. This is why this type of gaming is highly addictive to the human psychology.

Who is the house in a PVE MMO? The Studio - In a PVE only MMO it would be any number of end game PVE objectives. Getting a rare drop would be beating the house.
Who is the house in a PVP MMO? Any number of end game PVE objectives AND the players at the top of the PVP food-chain. (large groups)

The PVP MMO is the most complex casino design that humans entertain. Because it has two houses. Making it very difficult to design properly and incentivize long term patronage from population.


Mortal is currently designed like a game of soccer more-so then a casino. It is very very predictable who will win a fight and under what circumstances. Currently, one of the houses is nearly always winning, which means there's no chance for the player to win, which means they cannot fulfill their hero complex, which means they will play elsewhere that they can.

Josh Strife Hayes has also touched on this subject before in multiple videos, an example below. One of the few people on earth besides myself who has a truly deep understanding of MMO's and the philosophy and psychology of MMO gaming; because like me, he has dedicated most of his life to playing, researching and understanding them.




Mortal will grow if it adheres to the casino paradigm, where the house has a comfortable advantage but is willing to allow the player to win just enough to keep them playing...forever. If mortal fails to adopt this mentality, then it will be outcompeted by better houses that are willing to offer these concessions and conditions.
 
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Gingererry

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Jul 2, 2024
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I see it's been a while since this was posted, but I just want to ask—do you think newer MMOs are leaning more into those dopamine-loop mechanics, or are we starting to see a shift away from that? Feels like some devs are trying to build slower, more meaningful gameplay again. Curious what others think, especially with games like Mortal Online 2 going against the trend.
 

Paystaren

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Jul 5, 2024
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I used to think I was just grinding for gear, but reading this really made me reflect on how some games hook us the same way slot machines do. I started tracking how much time and energy I was putting in, and found resources on emsahara.com that helped me understand the patterns. It’s wild how much design influences behavior when you step back and look at it.
 
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tom76

New member
Apr 3, 2025
4
1
1
Have you ever considered to the relationship between MMO's and Casinos?

1. Randomness - Both MMO's and Casinos have a high degree of randomness, namely in RNG or "Rolls".
2. Always open - Both MMO's and Casinos are always open, they can be enjoyed at any time on any day and in any weather.
3. Fun with friends / Fun without friends - Both Casinos and MMO's are able to be played alone or in a group and the experience differs only slightly between the two.
4. Incentives for long time patronage - Both casinos and MMO's offer incentives the longer you play and the more often you play
5.Persistent - The games never end, they endure indefinitely against the house.

How is this different from other games humans might enjoy? Like for example a game of soccer?

Soccer can only be played in groups.
Soccer can only be played during certain hours and certain weather.
Soccer has low degree of randomness and very predictable results. A pro soccer team will always beat a novice soccer team.
Soccer is not persistent, the game has a clear start and finish.


At any given time on earth are there more humans playing in casinos or are playing soccer? The answer is always casino's.

Why?
Accessibility and most importantly winning is possible for anyone at anytime.

What is winning in a casino? Beating the house
What is winning in a MMO? Beating the house

Why are humans so attracted to beating the house, despite knowing the house has an advantage at all times and in every situation?
Hero complex: All humans are attracted to the idea of being the hero. Winning against the odds is the definition of heroism...the underdog. Even the villains wish they could be Hero's. Because the Hero is loved by everyone, the Hero enjoys admiration, respect and the benefits of heroism. Beating the house, against the odds, fulfills that hero complex momentarily. This is why this type of gaming is highly addictive to the human psychology.

Who is the house in a PVE MMO? The Studio - In a PVE only MMO it would be any number of end game PVE objectives. Getting a rare drop would be beating the house.
Who is the house in a PVP MMO? Any number of end game PVE objectives AND the players at the top of the PVP food-chain. (large groups)

The PVP MMO is the most complex casino design that humans entertain. Because it has two houses. Making it very difficult to design properly and incentivize long term patronage from population.


Mortal is currently designed like a game of soccer more-so then a casino. It is very very predictable who will win a fight and under what circumstances. Currently, one of the houses is nearly always winning, which means there's no chance for the player to win, which means they cannot fulfill their hero complex, which means they will play elsewhere that they can.

Josh Strife Hayes has also touched on this subject before in multiple videos, an example below. One of the few people on earth besides myself who has a truly deep understanding of MMO's and the philosophy and psychology of MMO gaming; because like me, he has dedicated most of his life to playing, researching and understanding them.


I also like JetX, a crash game from Smartsoft. And this one is really different. The rules are simple: you bet money, watch plane take off, and press "cash out" before it explodes. It seems like nothing special, but the point is that you decide when to collect your winnings. In one session, I won almost 15x my bet - I just pressed it in time! The RTP is high, the gameplay is fast, and, most importantly, you can play with a minimum bet of ₹1. Very convenient for those who do not want to risk much. If you are interested, read more about the game - everything is described, how to start, how to bet, and what to expect.

Mortal will grow if it adheres to the casino paradigm, where the house has a comfortable advantage but is willing to allow the player to win just enough to keep them playing...forever. If mortal fails to adopt this mentality, then it will be outcompeted by better houses that are willing to offer these concessions and conditions.
Thanks for the info. Have a nice day.
 
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Leon33

New member
Jun 27, 2025
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0
1
Canada
Really interesting take, man, never thought about MMOs that way but it totally clicks. That "beating the house" rush is exactly why we keep grinding for that 0.01% drop or that one insane jackpot moment.

Speaking of which, I've been having a lot of fun lately with 1xbet in nigeria since the Android app finally came back to Google Play – everything loads fast, the live events are endless and the cashout feature actually works when you need it.

If you're into that same "one lucky moment can change everything" vibe that keeps us hooked on both casinos and MMOs, it's honestly worth having it installed. Keeps the hero complex fed between raid nights 😂
 
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