Returning Player Feedback

[Sophisticus]

I played MO2 for a total of 20 hours during the F2P days (before i played ~ 200 h). Before I get to my feedback, I think it's important to explain what type of player I am in MO2 (in MMORPG's in general). I'm mainly a solo, duo or small scale player, who nevertheless spontaneously joins a larger group for a task, but then goes separate ways again. I am not and never have been the type for guilds and zerg vs zerg. At the same time, I'm someone who prefers exploring, PvP and PvE and almost completely ignores gathering and crafting, preferring to buy what I need from crafters and gatherers.

I also want to explain the criteria by which I measure MO2, as I will draw many comparisons in the feedback as to how it can be different and imo better. MO2, as a sandbox MMORPG, I measure it by the sandbox MMORPG I had the most time (~35k hours without AFK activities) and fun in until today: Albion Online. I know what you're thinking: “It's that casual top-down children's mobile game.”. That's how Albion seems on the surface, but anyone who has played Albion and understood the meta systems, the territory wars, the structure of the world and the progress loop knows that it's not. It is, along with EvE Online, the two best sandbox MMORPG's we have on the market in terms of system and content.

However, MO2 has strengths that no other MMORPG has and is therefore unique:
1. the combat system
2. the first-person perspective
3. the difficulty level
4. the seemless large open World with one Server
5. the aesthetics (a mixture of brutal beauty and transience) - memento mori

All the other systems and content of MO2 can actually be found in one way or another in every other sandbox MMORPG. Be it territory wars or guild wars, be it gathering, crafting or dungeons.
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Feedback​

1. Game-World​

The game world is unfortunately as empty and lifeless as it was 2 years ago. Of course, a lot has been added in terms of quantity, but overall nothing that has made a decisive difference. I rode my horse around the entire map for almost 5 hours last night and apart from a few PoI's and camps, I found nothing. The PoI's themselves are also still uninteresting. There's nothing to break up the dull grind or the hours of riding with a spontaneous event. The Relics do seem to want to fulfill such a function, but in my entire 5 hour ride I found a single inactive Guild Relic at BadCompany that I couldn't do anything with. All the NPCs in the game world are also just standing around lifelessly, stiffly and doing nothing. Where is the Citizens-AI Behavior Patch from back then?

In Albion, the game world is full of possibilities in the form of spontaneous events. There is the meta-event “Bandit Assault”, which gives a server-wide notification and mobilizes all players to take part in this faction war event. Then there are all the small events and dynamic content in the world, such as treasure chests that spawn and are displayed on the map, boss lair maps that can be found anywhere and take you to hidden lairs with a boss, the Mists that take you to another world with its own content, Portals into the Avalonian Roads, dynamic dungeon entrances that are only open for a certain time, large and rare world bosses on the surface of the game world, Hellgates or corrupted dungeons that you have to search for, as their position always changes in the game world and Fraction Warfare with capture the base in every Zone. All of this filled with players fighting for it makes the game world feel very lively and full.
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2. Rewards​

In the 20 hours in which I primarily did all the camps and POI's, I never had the feeling of being really rewarded, not once. You get little things all the time. Open 20-30 treasure chests and it's just little things. Killed hundreds of bandits and outlaws and it feels like you get nothing. A few silver here, 1-2 gold in the best case, a few magic or crafty materials and that's it. No moment of “WWOOOOOW, that's worth a lot!!!” or “I needed that all the time!!!”

In Albion, 80% of the time it's the same, 15% is medium-rewarding and 5% feels very rewarding in terms of loot. With the bandits in Albion or in treasure chests, there's also some really good gear in there. I know what you're thinking now. “In a sandbox MMORPG, all gear has to be made by players and not drop from NPCs like in Themepark MMORPGs.” Yes, I agree with that. In Albion, even the gear that is in treasure chests or drops from NPCs is made by players. How that? In the center of the game world of Albion there is a bandit and outlaw town for red players who can sell their gear that they have taken from other players in Full Loot PvP or have crafted themselves in the so-called “Black Market”. Every item sold there by players appears as loot everywhere in the game world. In this way, the player-driven economy is maintained and gear loot is possible at the same time.
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3. Diversity​

In general, MO2 lacks variety in every aspect. It starts with the build options. I only have the choice between three archetypes: Fighter, Tamer or Mage.
Yes, Archery is included as a skill, but no real primary build is possible, especially not as a footie. Archery could use some development in the form of skills that support Archery. The three archetypes have how many distinct, unique and playable build possibilities each? Maybe 5? At best. The Rogue archetype is also completely missing.

As far as the weapon selection is concerned, MO2 really only offers the basic weapons. No fist weapons, quarterstaff, crossbow, boas, double wield weapons, wands and many more. Theoretically, there are no limits.

There is also a great lack of content variety. Apart from uninteresting POI's, camps and (I think) 12 dungeons, there is nothing for someone like me.

When I compare that to Albion, they are worlds apart in terms of variety. Albion has 104 unique weapons in total, each of which play very differently and for each of these weapons there is at least one good build for a specific content area of the game (ZvZ, Solo, Duo, Mists, corrupted dungeons, Ava Roads, Solo Dunegons, Groupe Dunegons, Fraction Warfare etc.).
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4. Solo, Duo, Small Scale Content​

Meaningful, motivating and specifically designed systems and content for Solo, Duo and Small Scale are also missing in MO2. By that I don't mean systems or content that are only accessible for these types of players, but for everyone, but intended for solo, duo or small scale players.

At least that's how it works in Albion. For example, the dynamic solo dungeons are designed for solo players in terms of difficulty and loot, but can also be entered by a group or while you are alone in the dungeon, an enemy player can come in and kill you. So it's meant for solo, duo or small scale, but the open design makes it accessible to everyone.
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Aside from missing content and systems for solo, duo or small scale players, MO2 does not offer any tools, skills or items to support these player types in their adventures in Nave. For example, the Rogue archetype with associated skills such as poisons, traps, sneaking, thievery, camouflage or invisibility would significantly support solo, duo or small scale players and thus offer them the opportunity to protect themselves from zergs. These player types could also be given more options in the form of potions or instruments created through engineering or alchemy.

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Conclusion​

My constant comparison to Albion is not because I want MO2 to be like Albion. MO2 should find its own content, its own systems. But games like Albion or EvE can be a source of inspiration. I want Mo2 to keep its hardcore nature and the five strengths mentioned above. My feedback comes from a deep desire for MO2 to do better and grow in player numbers. The basic interest is there. The initial 10k concurrent players on Steam shows that. Albion also started as a small indie Studio, actually as a crowdfunding Project and has a tough development path behind it. Star Vault could have exactly the same success if they start making the right development decisions.

I believe that as long as MO2 does not diversify content, playstyles, game world and systems, it will remain at the current player numbers or get worse. My suggestion is therefore to concentrate more on these aspects and to release content for a specific player type in mind with every major content patch. Sometimes something for solo players, sometimes for duos players, sometimes for small scale players, sometimes for guilds. At the same time, such content should feel meaningful, fun and rewarding. At the moment, that doesn't seem to be the case.

These regular player-surveys are now a hindrance. Due to the fact that MO2 offers a small variety of player types, the results of such surveys are also accordingly. It is always the same types of players who choose the same type of content and systems, making diversity impossible.

When I talk about diversity of player types and content or solo possibilities, I don't mean that MO2 should start appealing to casual Themepark WoW players. I mean everything written in the vision of a Hardcore full loot sandbox MMORPG. Diversity in the form of content, systems, skills, tools and items that are for different types of players is what realizes a true sandbox experience. This is the only way to give players the opportunity to find their own meaningful and rewarding, even if hard, path while having fun. I currently have absolute freedom to do what I want as a solo player in Mo2, but everything I can do is unrewarding, pointless and not fun.​

 

[CherryKush]

Aside from content and systems for solo, duo or small scale players, MO2 does not offer any tools, skills or items to support these player types in their adventures in Nave. For example, the Rogue archetype with associated skills such as poisons, traps, thievery, camouflage or invisibility would significantly support solo, duo or small scale players and thus offer them the opportunity to protect themselves from zergs. These player types could also be given more options in the form of potions or instruments created through engineering or alchemy.
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[Teknique]

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4. Solo, Duo, Small Scale Content​

Meaningful, motivating and specifically designed systems and content for Solo, Duo and Small Scale are also missing in MO2. By that I don't mean systems or content that are only accessible for these types of players, but for everyone, but intended for solo, duo or small scale players.

At least that's how it works in Albion. For example, the dynamic solo dungeons are designed for solo players in terms of difficulty and loot, but can also be entered by a group or while you are alone in the dungeon, an enemy player can come in and kill you. So it's meant for solo, duo or small scale, but the open design makes it accessible to everyone.

Aside from missing content and systems for solo, duo or small scale players, MO2 does not offer any tools, skills or items to support these player types in their adventures in Nave. For example, the Rogue archetype with associated skills such as poisons, traps, thievery, camouflage or invisibility would significantly support solo, duo or small scale players and thus offer them the opportunity to protect themselves from zergs. These player types could also be given more options in the form of potions or instruments created through engineering or alchemy.
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I'm in a good position to speak on this. There was an active campaign by people to whisper nonsense into Henrik's ear regarding these types of systems. The general philosophy is that content shouldn't be "too easy" otherwise it "cheapens the value of the loot". This is why we saw things like bandit hive mind, because solo bandit farm would "cause gold inflation". This is why anything soloable was nerfed into the ground. In reality it just feels excessively punishing and completely disrespectful of the players time. You can apply this to ANYTHING in the game philospohy. Training dummies had to be nerfed because a solo player maxing their skills was "too fake" and not in the "real game world". It is also why taming anything above lvl 50 has to be impossibly hard because its not fun to go and catch a creature without lvling it for 100 hrs apparently. If you found any type of "hack" to level or farm something easily there wouldn't be any "clever use of game mechanics" it would be instant nerf instead. Nothing feels rewarding, one of the biggest reasons i'm out. This permeates everything in this garbage heap of a game, from the class balance, to the world, to everything.

I tried desperately to get SV to take a player focused and solo player focused approach but I was mainly treated like garbage, and instead they deferred to "experts" who in my opinion weren't worth the salt in their bodies.

To summarize if you found something that checked the boxes of solo friendly. It was rewarding, it was relatively safe, and it was soloable, it would then be nerfed into the ground with SV's philosophy of just overnerfing anything they don't like.

I haven't played since January last year, and I was indeed having some fun, but they nerfed into the ground every build/class/playstyle that I enjoy playing in these types of games. They were all strong solo builds, like my battlemage tamer which was fuckn insane, or mounted combats etc. I'm just not interested in playing a game where the heavy hand of Star Vault is there to nerf anything that some random idiot says makes them feel bad because its too strong.

Gameplay loop in MO1: Fish or farm with an MA for lots of gold, invest that gold into strong characters, fight with those characters in the global politics of the game

Gameplay loop in MO2: Look up and to the right, swing my sword, press feint, swing again

 

[Sophisticus]

I'm in a good position to speak on this. There was an active campaign by people to whisper nonsense into Henrik's ear regarding these types of systems. The general philosophy is that content shouldn't be "too easy" otherwise it "cheapens the value of the loot". This is why we saw things like bandit hive mind, because solo bandit farm would "cause gold inflation".

Yes, that's nonsense. Not only is it empirically nonsense, as sandbox MMORPG's like Albion and EvE can prove the opposite, but it is also nonsense from the perspective of classical economic theories. Because an economy has many, very different actors who invest, consume, produce and compete, the economy grows. In the case of MO2, a broader and more diverse playstyles, systems and content would mean more diverse players that increase supply and demand.

It is also nonsense to equate solo content with easy content.

 

[Teknique]

Yes, that's nonsense. Not only is it empirically nonsense, as sandbox MMORPG's like Albion and EvE can prove the opposite, but it is also nonsense from the perspective of classical economic theories. Because an economy has many, very different actors who invest, consume, produce and compete, the economy grows. In the case of MO2, a broader and more diverse playstyles, systems and content would mean more diverse players that increase supply and demand.

It is also nonsense to equate solo content with easy content.

So for context at the time do you recall when bandits were dropping amethysts, and the bandit leaders were dropping sapphires or whatever it was? We went from that to hive mind and 80 silver heads because that was the right play apparently. Went from gems that were light and worth something to heads that were heavy and worthless in exchange for difficult to solo. Sound balanced?

 

[Emdash]

appreciate, hope they read. I will soon haha.

 

[Emdash]

For example, the Rogue archetype with associated skills such as poisons, traps, sneaking, thievery, camouflage or invisibility would significantly support solo, duo or small scale players and thus offer them the opportunity to protect themselves from zergs. These player types could also be given more options in the form of potions or instruments created through engineering or alchemy.

^ I was rogueish. It could be better, though, but I remember coming back and dropping a house in Overt Territory where the old house was, getting it up, and them killing my friend because they couldn't get me. There are some issues with pop in in regards to seeing people when you shouldn't, but there are a lot of ways to sneak around. The problem is that there isn't much to do. I definitely could bow grief people from mountains, too. It's there, but what's the point?

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These regular player-surveys are now a hindrance. Due to the fact that MO2 offers a small variety of player types, the results of such surveys are also accordingly. It is always the same types of players who choose the same type of content and systems, making diversity impossible.

^ Also this, yuppp. It amazes me that people actually want the content they are getting, but the big problem is not only surveys, but it's the stranglehold the people who are left have on the development of the game. Until they realize that those guys will take whatever shit they are served, other than the ones who are benefiting from the systems and will leave when they can't own nubs anymore, the game will never improve.

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I am not joking when I say MO is really cooked. They went too far. Still nice to read some thoughts. I hope they do read it as well.