Alvarins are Overtuned

Smoldor

New member
Sep 20, 2023
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There's really no point in going into a dungeon with a small group as a non alvarin. What used to be the "solo viable race" is now the only viable race for anyone serious about dungeon diving in small scale pvp, and anyone less the wiser who dares enter a dungeon on another race is discovering a new reason to stop playing their race, or even the game.

The issues stem from a series of flat buffs to all races that improve time-to-kill in conjunction with nerfs to other races. When buffs like masteries (more HP, better defense, more DEX), the flat HP buff, brace/quicken, and higher DH potions are put in the game, Alvarins receive the most benefit because they uniquely have the ability to gap other races to the extent of full resetting, and all the extra leeway over time has just made it fairly unpunishable. Incidentally, while adrenaline moves conversely lower the TTK for all other races, the impact against Alvarins is minimal because the moves mostly have extremely poor hitboxes for chasing (when you run forward, the hit box is weirdly tight to your body), and many even push a runner further away.

With that in mind, these are the three things I think should be addressed most.
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ALVARIN BALANCE ISSUES

Armor Pierce -- Runner's High was buffed to include armor pierce in order to counter the t-shield mage meta and balance against impossible-to-kill adamant thursars. The idea was that the "Mage Killer" class could better secure kills on mages, and Thursars were too tanky to kill. Now that t-shields have a hard counter in adrenaline abilities and Thursars have lost adamant, there's no need for alvarins to have this at their disposal.

Infinite Stamina -- There is a design asymmetry for Alvarin footies in that the "Assasin" "Dex Fighter" "Mage Killer" archetype can wear heavier armor better than other races because their stamina regen far outmatches theirs in a similar set while also being uniquely capable of having kill pressure with low stam weapons (daggers thanks to weakspot+tracking superiority and 2h swords thanks to armor pierce). This is on top of having 70 psyche minimum out of the box. Alvarin mages also essentially have an infinite stam pool, allowing them to recover stam after jumpcasting to lesser heal while also escaping, staying largely stam neutral during a chase where non-Alvarins will never come close to touching them.

Gap Overeffectiveness -- Alvarins are the only race in the game that can create and hold gaps on other races, but with how tanky characters have become, and with Alvarins moving faster than they used to, there's little room to punish poor movement. When an Alvarin and a non-Alvarin are in melee range with one another, the Alvarin can effectively trade attacks, then gap continually until they have a HP advantage from a good trade. Even when the other fighter punishes with superior postitioning, the most attacks that can be executed against while sticky backing a running alvarin is 2-4, depending on weapon length and speed, and an alvarin can stay safely above the HP threshold without ever being in danger. Quicken does not stretch this number and even decreases it in many cases because to use Quicken, you have to stop charging your attack. The only race that can really utilize Quicken is Alvarins to escape better. This creates an environment in which the only way to finish Alvarins is to be an Alvarin as well.

POTENTIAL FIXES

Armor Pierce -- The simple fix is to just remove it from the game, the same way Thursas lost 10% physical defense, Oghmirs lost easy access to t-shields and equipment hits on weapons, and human d-knights an easy ahk bond...etc. Another fix could be to add immunity to armor pierce to defensive clades (adrenaline rush/rock solid/mental power?) or adrenaline moves such as Brace/Ward, as well as making the effects last a bit longer, but it feels like an unnecessary action/reaction mechanic to be lent to alvarins for no real reason. Another fix could be to make it only work when hitting people from behind.

Stamina Regen -- The regeneration rate should be affected by the maximum armor weight. A character that can only wear 10/10 kg of armor weight due to dropping str and skimping armor training should have less stamina regen than a character in 20/28 armor weight. Resting Pulse should be a band aid that helps the lower armor weight capacity alvarins stay roughly even to classes that can wear more armor or reward them for using worse armor, not something that makes them stam gods in optimally defensive sets.

Gap Overeffectiveness -- The fix here is difficult because there is a fine line between a gap never being effective and being overeffective. Removing the passive movement speed buff would be the easy fix, while maybe lowering runner's high recast (and getting rid of armor pierce)... A middle ground could be to make the passives only affect combat sprinting, so dex characters can keep their high octane combat speeds, but also force them to move slower than other combat running races when in a chase, and also allow for a window where Quicken can actually be utilized effectively by anything other than an Alvarin.
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In closing, I think the goal should be to keep the alvarin playstyle effective in larger group settings, but create a much finer line for punishable play in small-scale/solo combat.
 

Iloros

Active member
Dec 14, 2023
190
42
28
Facts, they are the only viable class in the game right now. You also mention only dungeons as a plaxe where they shine.

Let's quickly go over 2 factors there

1. They are also dominant in POIs or anywhere else as long as its nit 50v50 where they are tied with Oghmirs in effectivness.

2. Dungeons and POIs are like the only way to make gold or glory.

So while Alvarin is op in dungeon does not sound too threatening to games balance reality is that they are the only viable option in all small scale of which dungeons ans POIs are 90% because literally what else is there?

Even post armor pierce, stam and passive speed nerf they would be the most survivable high utility class thats best for ganking/kill pressure and getting away from bad fights/survivability its just that they have it all right now. 230 hp 18 dmg bonus that jumps to 40 effectively vs steel and even higher vs better armors for 1/3 uptime 400 stam and multiple stam regening clades that work way too good, 445 speed no fall dmg no water dmg see theough walls 2 adrenaline baseline 70 psyche can wear same armors can drink same potions can eat same hot food etc. Way too much stuff going on they hit Thursars for 50 with swords now you hit them back for 55 with 2h axe. Its horrible you barely outtrade them. It used to be 185 hp no bonuses vs 215 hp with 10% dmg reduction now its 228 hp with 15% armor pierce vs 256 hp no dmg reduction. Hp gap closed % wise reduction removed and penetration added. Goofy game Alvarins legit outtrade Thursars atp.