“Staff Magic” should not be a completely isolated magic school… This will be a huge failure.

Marchioro

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Mar 25, 2024
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Since I've recently been making some posts about magic schools and we know that “staff magic” is being considered as the next big thing in magic, I decided to talk a little about it.

Just like other magical schools, almost nothing is known about what the gameplay of such a school will be. All we have are a few brief insights from Henrik about what they have planned...

According to older players, Mortal Online (1), mechanics similar to wands in Tibia and Arcane Focus (largely staffs) in D&D were often mentioned, in which the spell would be linked to the type of item used, with charges limiting the amount to be cast... In this way, it is a system completely separate from traditional spells that consume mana.

Such mechanics were never mentioned in Mortal Online 2, which makes me believe they were forgotten (thanks Lord). The latest statements we have are:​
  • “The Staff mage devotes a lot of time and energy into crafting a personalized staff which he binds his powers to. Creating a staff is an advanced process which is the key to the staff mages powers”.​
    • The staff will be an item that will require a long journey to be definitively crafted.​
      • Hence, Star Vault considers a way to make the staff something that cannot be lost (soul bound).​
  • “A staff mage uses his staff not only to cast spells, but also as a melee weapon.”​
    • It will allow 3 playstyles:​
      • “Classic conjurer”, using the staff to cast spells and as a defensive tool (parry);​
      • Gandalf’s staff and sword (one-handed weapon) style;​
      • Monk style, more focused on melee combat with melee spells;​
  • It will be a magic school with its own spell list:​
    • It will not be compatible with current magic schools:​
      • It can only cast spells from its own list;​
In this context, reflecting a little on the proposed ideas, it is possible to see that the design that Star Vault has in mind is extremely ridiculous and poorly thought out! Especially, when considering the use of basic spells like Leeser Heal and Command Undead... What's the point of having a magical weapon for spell casting in which the caster must hold down, like any other weapon in the game, to cast spells from other magic schools?

I can understand why the idea of a mage going on a journey through Nave in search of creating his ultimate weapon as something extremely attractive... But at the same time, limiting the use of the weapon when casting spells is horrible.

There is no need to do a magic school for this concept. It would be much more interesting to implement staff, and possibly other arcane focuses, simply as a family of weapons, in this case magical weapons, keeping, of course, the idea of the journey.

All spells will be compatible with staff use. However, to make things more interesting, some melee spells, which rely on the use of weapons, should be implemented in existing magical schools.
I know that Henrik sometimes said that the Star Vault has intentions of make magic schools that will require melee weapons in order to be used. But again I say, this idea of limiting everything to “school this”, “school that”, is stupid.

Just spread this line of spell in existing and planned schools. For example, let's imagine that 1 or 2 new branches are created in elementalism, which allow elemental enchantments (based on mana drain) on weapons (bows included) and the use of melee spells through the weapon. Since Star vault is working on weapon skills, some enchantments could add an effect, such as applying debuffs, small area damage or launching a projectile when such skills are used. Melee spells could be a slightly more elaborate weapon move. The same idea can be applied to other schools, such as necromancy, which could curse the user's weapon or briefly invoke a some kind of blade, when wielding the staff, similar to the Souls series.


I believe this idea of the materialization of a magical blade is a very interesting thing that can be translated to Mortal. I know that some people think using a scythe is extremely cool... but I think it's a very "Edgelord" thing (at least as an active combat weapon, I don’t want to see it in this game)... Because if I liked that crap I'd be playing something korean nonsense or any other similar crap which comes from that side of the world... However, a melee spell that momentarily summons a scythe (requires a staff) could be something even interesting as a reference to one of the old Gods of Tindrem. This way being something that appeals to more players (the best of both worlds).

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In this scenario, what would distinguish the physical and magical capabilities of the staff user, in addition to the build itself (attributes, skills and trinkets), would be the crafted weapon model. Some models could have a greater affinity with magic, for example, granting bonuses when using spells but at the same time being terrible for melee combat, being only useful as a parry tool. On the other hand, some models would have great melee damage, but with reduced magical potential (penalties), for example only 50% magical effectiveness, thus limiting their magical potential, being more suitable for the monk' playstyle since this would still be useful as a melee weapon when mana ran out.
 
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Marchioro

Member
Mar 25, 2024
46
45
18
Taking these ideas into consideration in conjunction with the following post:


We would have a design that would allow the following playstyles:
  • Classic spellcaster mage with staff:
    • It can use all spells in the game, without exceptions;
    • Melee spells, based on weapon attacks, have high magical and low physical damage;
    • In the absence of mana, the staff only serves as a defense tool (parry);
  • Gandalf (Staff and Sword):
    • Spends 200 additional skill points:
      • 100 points in one-handed melee weapon;
      • 100 points in dual wielding;
    • It can use all spells in the game, without exceptions;
    • Balanced damage, possibly good depending on the build:
      • Magic (staff)
      • Physical (one-handed weapon)
  • Monk with staff:
    • It can use all spells in the game, without exceptions;
    • Spells have reduced magical damage, regardless of whether they are based on weapon use or not;
    • High physical damage due to the staff model, suitable for active melee combat;
  • Spellcaster mage without staff (hands only):
    • Just does not use weapon-based spells;
    • Does not receive the benefit of a magical weapon;
    • Saves 200 skill points:
      • Does not spend points on Staff;
      • Does not spend points on Blocking;
  • Arcane Swordsman (arcane duelist):
    • Uses one-handed weapons without the use of staff:
      • Saves 100 skill points;
    • Makes use of just a few spells:
      • Weapon-based spells;
      • Classic conjuration spells, as long as they are compatible with the one-handed design, restricted to some conditions (rules);
  • Fighter with two-handed weapons:
    • It can only uses weapon-based spells, as long as you have invested skill points for this.
The proposed design, in addition to allowing the creation of different playstyles, will eliminate limitations regarding the use of spells by classic spellcasters, at the same time making the construction of builds more interesting, as there will be no need to create “new magic schools” completely inclined towards the use of weapons... Instead, the only thing that must be done is distribute such spells in existing schools. This method would make magical schools more comprehensive and richer in detail, as they would encompass more gameplay possibilities.

I know Star Vault often likes to reinvent the wheel, but when the path to be taken is relatively the same (flat surfaces), the standard wheel is the best design. I'd like to invite Henrik to take a poll on one of his streams, just so he can really see what his player base thinks about the design they have in mind for “staff magic”. The options may be as follows:
  • Launch as an extremely limited magic school (not compatible with other schools);
  • Launch as a limited magic school (compatible with just a few other schools);
  • Forget the idea about magic school. Do it as a magical weapon compatible with all magic schools;
I am pretty sure that the result will not be based on a “magic school”.

I am aware that everything proposed here will require a lot of work in terms of design and animations, something costly for an indie company like Star Vault. The difference here in relation to other magic schools is that we are talking about a project that is still in the planning, i.e., there is time to reevaluate the design choice and work calmly, for example releasing the spells in batches, in the same way happened with elementalism. If Star Vault still decides to ignore everything said and do staff as they initially planned, I guarantee this will be another major failure on the same level as spiritism and necromancy were! Extremely clunky systems, not at all immersive or fun, which after a few years, “someday” they will need to rework…