Strong Self-Healing Kills Build Diversity

Sally

Active member
Dec 2, 2023
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Problem: Healing is too strong

Why is this a problem: It is a problem because any build that does not rely on burst damage becomes completely redundant in the face of healing, thus narrowing build diversity significantly. This is why 95% of the elementalism spells are near useless, why foot archery is near useless. Anything that does not do large damage consistently is near completely useless.

Anything that lacks mobility is also near useless, because a lack of mobility (or range), means damage cannot be applied consistently, which results in healing overriding any damage done. This is why mounted archers with healing are such a huge issue.


Solution: Mana cost of magic healing is WAY too low. Greater heal, for example, is less than half the mana cost of Mental projectile, yet restores near the same amount of health as the damage done. This means healers can essentially tank magic damage indefinitely without intervening with corrupt.

Corrupt is too easy to deal with due to purify. You have a cheap easy to access spell that anyone can use, that locks out anti-healing for pretty much no cost, that can be cast extremely quickly. Basically anyone can cast purify, and it doesn't scale with anything, meaning it is just as effective if you're not a full blown mage, as it is as if you were someone who was essentially a full melee fighter.

Magic heals should be dealt with by giving all styles of play an easy way to shut down healing that CANNOT be turned off easily. Why is there no poison arrow that turns healing off? Being hit in melee range should apply a debuff whereby healing is significantly lowered; similar to how it works with bandages; HOWEVER, this debuff should ONLY apply if you're trying to SELF heal, not if someone is trying to heal another. Oh, and please, don't make it some 5 second debuff, we want it to essentially be shut down while they're under direct fire. Nobody should be healing while they're being attacked unless it is from another player who is a dedicated healer.

Magic Heals should require a greater skill investment, they shouldn't be so easy to access for everyone. Spells so powerful should require a serious commitment, you should have to dedicate yourself to being a healer to have such powerful spells.

Bandages and potions are less of a problem, and have more limitations, however, they are still a problem. If someone can out-mobile you, well, they're just going to bandage over and over until they eventually beat you; leaving you in a stalemate position until they finally win. The difference being, they have the option to leave the fight at any time, you don't. If things go wrong for you? You can't run.

Bandages should only be usable while sitting. They should just be a faster way of healing while sitting, not something you apply while sprinting around. Potions? Fine, but they need a long cooldown.

Spam healing HAS to be dealt with if you want more build styles to flourish. Make it so people have to dedicate to the healer role, as opposed to just everyone being able to heal anyone.

I've complained about this so many times, and you just don't seem to understand what a huge problem this is for your game. It needs a complete overhaul; and still is one of the major flaws with your game.

Do you want everyone to play the same handful of ugly frankenstein builds, or do you want people to feel like everything they use can be useful? If you want everything to feel like it can be useful, then you need to nerf spam healing across the board. I genuinely feel you are extremely out of touch with how powerful healing is on your game, i mean REALLY out of touch.
 
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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
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an arrow skill that shuts down casting is a good idea. Other games have stuff like that. The rest of your ideas would swing the direction the wrong way.

There are a lot of skills you can have with the point allocation, add in trinkets / mastery and that's even more. You can heal while shuffling now, as well as you can be non-interruptable. All of those things matter and contribute to what you describe.

If you can't catch someone who is bandaging, imo, your build is not open world / small scale viable. The zerginess of the game makes it so that people run oghs, but an ogh should get kited. Purify corrupt is a really crazy mechanic in the midst of other things, applying it at the right time is huge. I def don't have enough experience to know those kinda things, but I never mained mage. When it works, tho, it's brutal.

You have to take a pretty big L to heal an MA. It's totally worth it for a lot of things, but you ruin your viability for most things other than transporting and dismounting people. I have no endurance, no stances, no wep skill, v low armor training, and 100 MA with 60 on child skills. Some people prol run lower. That's to get 60~ ecu. I have a tiny bit of taming, too. If I wanted to dump vitalism, I could probably take something else or max my child skills.

People generally kill me like when I have the sound off or something haha. It's a super super survivable build that is useful for non-direct engagements, but it's not something you are gonna fuck with people on the ground, cept nubs. And I would really lock some of those skills, like if there is ever a shut down mage arrow, make it so you can only do it to mounted mages when mounted.

What you are suggesting further buffs the powerful mage / fighter duo. You are not wrong about some things, though, like lesser heal is super fast and super spammy due to mana cost. Lesser-ing over 20 is op imo. You are identifying a problem, but I don't feel any of your solutions other than the very obvious idea that archers should be way better at locking down a mage. A mage should worry about an archer hitting them. That's how other games have been.
 

Locke

New member
Oct 30, 2022
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Mages should choose between being damage dealers or healers, as they do in most other MMORPGs. It would balance the game a lot.
 
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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
3,322
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Mages should choose between being damage dealers or healers, as they do in most other MMORPGs. It would balance the game a lot.

be interesting, but it doesn't address self healing lool. :eek:
 

Sally

Active member
Dec 2, 2023
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Mages should choose between being damage dealers or healers, as they do in most other MMORPGs. It would balance the game a lot.
This is something i suggested, but the problem is... Other games that do this usually have a separate stat for healing, whereas MO2 doesn't have one. That is why it is difficult to separate damage from healing. An alternative method they could use is just making it really really skill heavy to gain access to healing.