Mortal needs real escape skills

[Sophisticus]

During the first few weeks after the Sarducaa release, discussions about restrictions on open-world PvP were once again quite heated. Now that we’re almost back to pre-Sarducaa player numbers, as someone who truly loves this game and wants it to grow, I wonder what we can do without further restricting open-world PvP, because I actually think that open-world PvP plays a significant role in socializing and providing meaning.

The only way I see this happening is by providing players with proper escape tools and abilities, such as sneaking, invisibility, and setting traps.

I know what you’re thinking. Gankers and griefers would use these tools and abilities too. Yes, they would. But I think that with such tools and abilities, other players’ chances of survival would still increase, while at the same time giving the game interesting new gameplay for rogue playstyles. Because right now, if you’re attacked alone by a group, you have little to no options other than to run away and hope there isn’t a Veela in the enemy group, or to stand your ground and die like a man.

Especially with abilities like Sneak or Invisibility, you could escape such situations. Even if a group of players all sneak up on you while invisible, you can still go invisible yourself in response.

Skills like Sneaking could be introduced as a primary action skill, and setting traps as a profession, ideally combined with Thievery.

Skills like Invisibility could be added as a weapon ability associated with the wand.

It's questionable whether that will be enough to keep new and solo players around. But it would at least help them have realistic options in Zerg situations that lead to survival. And even if that's not the case, at least we'll have a few cool new rogue type skills and abilities in the game.

--------------------------

As for balancing, so that people don't just go invisible easely as soon as they realize they're losing a fight.

Of course, there should be restrictions and conditions for invisibility so that it isn't broken.

In other RPGs, for example, you could only become invisible if enemies didn't have line of sight to you. So you couldn't become invisible right in front of an enemy, you had to get behind something (like a wall) first.

In all other games, there are also counter spells to reveal invisible players. You could use a one-handed wand to grant the ability to become invisible, and a two-handed staff to reveal invisible players. All of this would be tied to primary skill points, which would ensure that not every fighter could simply become invisible without sacrificing other important skills.

 

[Iloros]

Would absolutely help what they are doing right now is adding an op race that especially is OP in solo small scale - Alvarins that can escape non Alvarin groups consistently

However...

1. People have class preferences and not everyone wants to play one so they quit.

2. Everyone started playing them so they lost that possibility and class identity

because again they are 80% of foot characters now.

So yeah for sure just asding some escape tools to everyone would be nice or just general 1vx outnumbered fighting tools including some rumbling when a zerg is nearby passive buffs to smaller groups especially solos, systems similar to focus fire in albion or revenge in for honor, or even just a lot of stuff that scales with numbers hit and a lot more AOE options. Eh they could do it if they wanted to man, they think just spamming content works when they are investing way more time and effort for short burst of numbers

The game will always be in negative retention unless they fix unfairness of combat and in general the game is too unfair, and btw unfair doesnt equal hardcore its 2 diff things. You can have unfair stuff in current WOW doesnt make it hardcore and this game has too much of it

P much 19 out of 20 fights are pre decided and you can make a difference in only 1 out of 20 and thats being generous.

 

[Dargelar]

There’s a lot that could be done; the only problem is the developers’ lack of skills and understanding of why any of this is needed.
You’re suggesting “running away” as a way to protect the player? I don’t know if that would help — probably the opposite. The game needs quality‑of‑life improvements, not more questionable mechanics that once again play into the hands of toxic players.

MO2 isn’t a hardcore MMORPG. If it were, it would never have ended up with: the current versions of mounted archers; Alvarins capable of clearing an entire dungeon from start to finish without ever engaging mobs; chests with a fixed lock‑picking combination; or a housing system that lets you farm top‑tier mobs just two metres from your house.

The game won’t fall apart if I can see right away that there’s an active player killer in the region, instead of finding out only after they’ve killed my horse or dealt enough damage that I have no chance of winning.
It’s 2026, and we’re still fighting mobs with AI straight out of 1995 games. For them, attacking a target that’s already being fought by several of its own kind is a higher priority than going after nearby enemies that no one is fighting. Even if you introduce a mechanic for accumulating extra aggro — so that if a player isn’t being attacked by a mob, it forces mobs to spread out among players instead of ten of them ganging up on one player (especially when the game offers no tools to defend against this) — it would raise the difficulty of dungeons and justify having a large number of melee players, requiring actual skill from each of them. It would also smooth out the unfairness of sneaky attacks under mobs on other players, giving everyone their own share of enemies (mobs) within their zone of responsibility.

Maybe adrenaline abilities should have been tested before being introduced. 80 % of them are useless, and the bow abilities are on par with high‑level combat magic. Overall, the adrenaline abilities feel like placeholders rather than fully‑formed skills.
Instead of these flawed abilities, there could easily be universal, reasonably balanced ones based on the existing racial abilities (since those are used anyway).
Here are some examples of universal abilities that could work for any class:
- Resource restoration (health/stamina/mana): activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, but the minimum adrenaline required to activate it is 3 points. For each adrenaline point, you get: 2 health points (max 20, 22 for Turshar), 3 stamina/mana points (max 30, 33 for Turshar) in exchange for a ×5/×10 cost of the corresponding resource pool (similar to Ogmir’s pipe for each resource type — this prevents spamming).
- Magic/physical protection or damage bonus: activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Mob aggro reset: activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration. This would be great against sneaky attacks — you basically pass the mobs to the enemy.
- Mob aggro acquisition (including the effect of depriving enemy pets of control for the duration of the ability, forcing them to attack the player): activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Escape: fixed increase in running speed to the level of 130 agility (without increasing normal movement speed). Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.
- Combat dance: walking speed becomes equal to running speed. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Purifying Wrath: removes negative effects and prevents new ones from being applied for the duration of the buff. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.

Clearly, the effectiveness of zerg groups can be reduced using a shout mechanic. You could allow a boost to be applied simultaneously to 5–6 players (pick a “golden squad” number) within the effect range (not just to those standing close), while blocking all other players from using shouts or receiving their effects for X seconds over a much larger distance — not 5 m, but 10–30 m. That way, the golden squad wouldn’t face any penalties, since the number of players matches the number receiving the bonus. But a zerg pack would suffer because their shouts would grant bonuses to random group members, making their overall effectiveness minimal.
Naturally, the system where two shouts can stack and affect the same target at the same time is flawed — it should be adjusted right away. Introduce a short “no shout effect” period to force teams to coordinate timings for maximum impact.
The game lacks simplified melee modes to attract players with different skill levels, and, most importantly, it lacks consideration for players’ ping. There’s also a lack of class balance in the game — a class that technically exists but is simply ignored by the developers.

 

[Iloros]

There’s a lot that could be done; the only problem is the developers’ lack of skills and understanding of why any of this is needed.
You’re suggesting “running away” as a way to protect the player? I don’t know if that would help — probably the opposite. The game needs quality‑of‑life improvements, not more questionable mechanics that once again play into the hands of toxic players.

MO2 isn’t a hardcore MMORPG. If it were, it would never have ended up with: the current versions of mounted archers; Alvarins capable of clearing an entire dungeon from start to finish without ever engaging mobs; chests with a fixed lock‑picking combination; or a housing system that lets you farm top‑tier mobs just two metres from your house.

The game won’t fall apart if I can see right away that there’s an active player killer in the region, instead of finding out only after they’ve killed my horse or dealt enough damage that I have no chance of winning.
It’s 2026, and we’re still fighting mobs with AI straight out of 1995 games. For them, attacking a target that’s already being fought by several of its own kind is a higher priority than going after nearby enemies that no one is fighting. Even if you introduce a mechanic for accumulating extra aggro — so that if a player isn’t being attacked by a mob, it forces mobs to spread out among players instead of ten of them ganging up on one player (especially when the game offers no tools to defend against this) — it would raise the difficulty of dungeons and justify having a large number of melee players, requiring actual skill from each of them. It would also smooth out the unfairness of sneaky attacks under mobs on other players, giving everyone their own share of enemies (mobs) within their zone of responsibility.

Maybe adrenaline abilities should have been tested before being introduced. 80 % of them are useless, and the bow abilities are on par with high‑level combat magic. Overall, the adrenaline abilities feel like placeholders rather than fully‑formed skills.
Instead of these flawed abilities, there could easily be universal, reasonably balanced ones based on the existing racial abilities (since those are used anyway).
Here are some examples of universal abilities that could work for any class:
- Resource restoration (health/stamina/mana): activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, but the minimum adrenaline required to activate it is 3 points. For each adrenaline point, you get: 2 health points (max 20, 22 for Turshar), 3 stamina/mana points (max 30, 33 for Turshar) in exchange for a ×5/×10 cost of the corresponding resource pool (similar to Ogmir’s pipe for each resource type — this prevents spamming).
- Magic/physical protection or damage bonus: activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Mob aggro reset: activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration. This would be great against sneaky attacks — you basically pass the mobs to the enemy.
- Mob aggro acquisition (including the effect of depriving enemy pets of control for the duration of the ability, forcing them to attack the player): activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Escape: fixed increase in running speed to the level of 130 agility (without increasing normal movement speed). Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.
- Combat dance: walking speed becomes equal to running speed. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Purifying Wrath: removes negative effects and prevents new ones from being applied for the duration of the buff. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.

Clearly, the effectiveness of zerg groups can be reduced using a shout mechanic. You could allow a boost to be applied simultaneously to 5–6 players (pick a “golden squad” number) within the effect range (not just to those standing close), while blocking all other players from using shouts or receiving their effects for X seconds over a much larger distance — not 5 m, but 10–30 m. That way, the golden squad wouldn’t face any penalties, since the number of players matches the number receiving the bonus. But a zerg pack would suffer because their shouts would grant bonuses to random group members, making their overall effectiveness minimal.
Naturally, the system where two shouts can stack and affect the same target at the same time is flawed — it should be adjusted right away. Introduce a short “no shout effect” period to force teams to coordinate timings for maximum impact.
The game lacks simplified melee modes to attract players with different skill levels, and, most importantly, it lacks consideration for players’ ping. There’s also a lack of class balance in the game — a class that technically exists but is simply ignored by the developers.

I might reply to the whole thing but I wanna mention a hilarious thing they did with weapon abilities

You said they should have been tested befkre being introduced, they DID test them, go live with them and then no kidding nerfed half of them multiple times and check this out


ONLY LIKE 2 MONTHS IN ADDED A FORCE/SWEETSPOT MECHANIC THAT MAKES ALL OF THEM DO LIKE 30% LESS DAMAGE ON AVERAGE and never unnerfed the ones they nerfed or buffed A SINGLE ONE


Because weapom abilities bad grrr..


Dude they released them thex were all useful some were busted, they nerf some of them and then add a system with no testing or compensation buffs that was supposed to be there day one that literally makes fracture do 35-65 instead of fixed 75...


Just destroyed them dude coz they did testing and feedback without that mechanic right anx they were balanced around not being giga reduced.

Some of them straight up hit for nothing because sweetspot hits are based off which part of the weapon you hit with among other things and some attacks like breaking blows right overhead hit with completely wrong parts of the weapon

So we have breaking blows left right doung and these are actual numbers 100-110 damage and breaking blows right ovehead to the same target doing 40-55 damage.

Same ability same cost same time

 

[Iloros]

There’s a lot that could be done; the only problem is the developers’ lack of skills and understanding of why any of this is needed.
You’re suggesting “running away” as a way to protect the player? I don’t know if that would help — probably the opposite. The game needs quality‑of‑life improvements, not more questionable mechanics that once again play into the hands of toxic players.

MO2 isn’t a hardcore MMORPG. If it were, it would never have ended up with: the current versions of mounted archers; Alvarins capable of clearing an entire dungeon from start to finish without ever engaging mobs; chests with a fixed lock‑picking combination; or a housing system that lets you farm top‑tier mobs just two metres from your house.

The game won’t fall apart if I can see right away that there’s an active player killer in the region, instead of finding out only after they’ve killed my horse or dealt enough damage that I have no chance of winning.
It’s 2026, and we’re still fighting mobs with AI straight out of 1995 games. For them, attacking a target that’s already being fought by several of its own kind is a higher priority than going after nearby enemies that no one is fighting. Even if you introduce a mechanic for accumulating extra aggro — so that if a player isn’t being attacked by a mob, it forces mobs to spread out among players instead of ten of them ganging up on one player (especially when the game offers no tools to defend against this) — it would raise the difficulty of dungeons and justify having a large number of melee players, requiring actual skill from each of them. It would also smooth out the unfairness of sneaky attacks under mobs on other players, giving everyone their own share of enemies (mobs) within their zone of responsibility.

Maybe adrenaline abilities should have been tested before being introduced. 80 % of them are useless, and the bow abilities are on par with high‑level combat magic. Overall, the adrenaline abilities feel like placeholders rather than fully‑formed skills.
Instead of these flawed abilities, there could easily be universal, reasonably balanced ones based on the existing racial abilities (since those are used anyway).
Here are some examples of universal abilities that could work for any class:
- Resource restoration (health/stamina/mana): activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, but the minimum adrenaline required to activate it is 3 points. For each adrenaline point, you get: 2 health points (max 20, 22 for Turshar), 3 stamina/mana points (max 30, 33 for Turshar) in exchange for a ×5/×10 cost of the corresponding resource pool (similar to Ogmir’s pipe for each resource type — this prevents spamming).
- Magic/physical protection or damage bonus: activating the ability (three different abilities) consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Mob aggro reset: activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration. This would be great against sneaky attacks — you basically pass the mobs to the enemy.
- Mob aggro acquisition (including the effect of depriving enemy pets of control for the duration of the ability, forcing them to attack the player): activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 5 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Escape: fixed increase in running speed to the level of 130 agility (without increasing normal movement speed). Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.
- Combat dance: walking speed becomes equal to running speed. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 2 seconds of buff duration.
- Purifying Wrath: removes negative effects and prevents new ones from being applied for the duration of the buff. Activating the ability consumes all adrenaline, with a minimum of 3 adrenaline points to activate. For each adrenaline point, you gain 1 second of buff duration.

Clearly, the effectiveness of zerg groups can be reduced using a shout mechanic. You could allow a boost to be applied simultaneously to 5–6 players (pick a “golden squad” number) within the effect range (not just to those standing close), while blocking all other players from using shouts or receiving their effects for X seconds over a much larger distance — not 5 m, but 10–30 m. That way, the golden squad wouldn’t face any penalties, since the number of players matches the number receiving the bonus. But a zerg pack would suffer because their shouts would grant bonuses to random group members, making their overall effectiveness minimal.
Naturally, the system where two shouts can stack and affect the same target at the same time is flawed — it should be adjusted right away. Introduce a short “no shout effect” period to force teams to coordinate timings for maximum impact.
The game lacks simplified melee modes to attract players with different skill levels, and, most importantly, it lacks consideration for players’ ping. There’s also a lack of class balance in the game — a class that technically exists but is simply ignored by the developers.

I read and agree with most of your takes and I really have nothing to add to them, I do however have to say one thing thex heavily lack is % modifiers on stats other than damage and defense or scaling modifiers


What they did with all these flat modifiers in trinkets and masteries and even a straight up flat buff to HP is make hefty weight classes undersirable because why would I give tons of % based resourcey for 19 more health when everyone has 150 health now.


Also giga buffs Alvarins.

And tbh man I cant really focus on almost any other balance discussions when Alvarins and MAs rhe most toxic builds that again people would hate even if they were balanced OR WEAK are dominating this hard.


The game is bottlenecked. Its like if League was Quinn top mid bot jungle support every game and flash ghost or gap closers didnt exist.

Its so dead on arrival my dude I cant stress it enough, I constantly chase Alvarins/bait MAs to try to limit test dude no kidding they can have the worst pathing waste stam jumping and swinging while you are just standing and invigorating have 0 stam awareness

And due to pure unmatched stamina efficency and speed and get out of jail free cards you CANNOT catch them.

Last time I caught an Alvarin was on Iloros my Myrland main with 140 mastery and top tier trinkets 275 hp 400 stam 416 speed


Took me literally not hitting back and only parrying a figure 8ing Alvarin in pansar with no pots or anything that didnt care about his stam at all and couldnt parry (mandatory else its impossible btw) for 30 minutes until finally a guy not realising stam bar was a thing started waddling OMERTA BANDAGED WITH NO STAM and got killed.

These people are animals with 0 game sense and they just win based ofd their class being beyond broken. Its the most broken thing in gaming since games started balancing (there was a time balance was not a thing even in multiplayer games in 90s and 2000s)

Any game I played there was more counterplay to a class than this one. Its undealable with, its pure misery. Completely ruins pvp.

Just 0 kill pressure if they do anything right meaning not if they play perfectly or good but if they do ANYTHING right be it parry decent have decent stam managment or spacing ita ggs. They dont need the whole package the floor is that low.

 

[Dargelar]

Can you describe or provide a link to the original versions of the Adrenaline weapon abilities? Or outline how they’ve evolved over time?

Personally, I find all this business with super armor penetration and the 2–4‑hit combo ridiculous (using it instantly reminded me of SAO and its 12‑ and 24‑hit mechanics). The fact that all abilities have the same cost despite their vastly different effectiveness is just as nonsensical.
I might sound harsh, but no testing is required to recognize that letting a player land an “unparriable strike” three times in a row creates an overpowered effect.

In my view, the abilities were meant to either enhance the weapon (by compensating for its weaknesses) or emphasize its effectiveness.

 

[Iloros]

Can you describe or provide a link to the original versions of the Adrenaline weapon abilities? Or outline how they’ve evolved over time?

Personally, I find all this business with super armor penetration and the 2–4‑hit combo ridiculous (using it instantly reminded me of SAO and its 12‑ and 24‑hit mechanics). The fact that all abilities have the same cost despite their vastly different effectiveness is just as nonsensical.
I might sound harsh, but no testing is required to recognize that letting a player land an “unparriable strike” three times in a row creates an overpowered effect.

In my view, the abilities were meant to either enhance the weapon (by compensating for its weaknesses) or emphasize its effectiveness.

I think you dont know the current ones either man. They wary from 1-4 adren cost. Just look at mortal online news ptr maybe idk.


In short they all dealt more damage and some werw much faster and cost less


They got giga nerfed.

 

[Dargelar]

I think you dont know the current ones either man. They wary from 1-4 adren cost. Just look at mortal online news ptr maybe idk.

In short they all dealt more damage and some werw much faster and cost less


They got giga nerfed.

Yeah, you’re right — the abilities have different prices, mostly 2 or 3 points. There’s one skill on the poleaxe that costs 4 points — I guess it’s supposed to chop a horse and rider in half. The relevant and valuable ones that caught my attention mostly cost 3 points.

As I said, overall I didn’t like how they’re implemented, but that’s just my subjective opinion.
The first problem, as always, comes down to the Alvarins with their base set of 2 adrenaline points, which lets them use cheap abilities at the start of the fight. Alvarins are so weak they need help. If there’s a race that starts with 2 adrenaline points, then abilities costing 1–2 points shouldn’t even be an option. We’re talking about abilities whose resource is based on generation during combat, right? I’d be more okay with it if Tursar could restore extra adrenaline points via an ability that is literally called "adrenaline" and thus get some early-game advantages — at least that would fit the lore.
Some abilities are just game macros for attacks with a bonus effect, while others have turned into spam attacks (like with the bow, where adrenaline feels almost infinite). For me, this devalues and ruins the atmosphere of the game.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed to me that abilities don’t consume much stamina, or barely any at all. At least with bows, if your stamina runs out, you can keep attacking via quick-shot until stamina recovers to a reasonable level — there’s simply no resource management.

Overall, I don’t like the idea of infinite scaling and the lack of a damage cap for physical and magical damage — in my opinion, it’s a dead end, and the devs will never be able to balance it properly. Definitely not in this game with its specific mechanics. These damage values of 100–200–300 hitting targets with a maximum health of 240 completely break and ruin the TTK. I think the future of this game lies in an inverted TTK scenario.

For physical damage, it should be determined by the weapon, while character stats define the resource cost and the quality needed to achieve maximum damage against each target. That is, the more damage gets through the enemy’s defenses, and the more often you can attack with that specific weapon (maybe you should pick a lighter weapon).

For magic, each spell also has its own damage range, but whether the mage can actually reach that damage is another question. Raise the base magic resistance for all characters, but don’t frame it as some sudden anomaly — instead, explain it by mages lacking the skills to concentrate their power. The weaker the mage, the less dense their magic is, and the weaker its effect. Give everyone a 50 % resistance to magic and make mages overcome this barrier through intelligence boosts. And let this resistance apply to all magic, including healing — how is the body supposed to know whether someone’s trying to help or harm it? That’d be interesting: you protect yourself from magic, but end up relying on bandages.

Regarding adrenaline abilities:

• I don’t want them to turn into spam attacks or turn melee combat into something “magical” via adrenaline spells.
• Adrenaline abilities should provide some kind of advantage or make fighting with that weapon feel distinct from others.
• We should consider ways to limit spamming adrenaline abilities — we shouldn’t turn them into magic. Either restrict the rate at which adrenaline accumulates, or introduce a global cooldown for all abilities, or, as I suggested earlier, apply adrenaline depletion after each activation, while rewarding players for accumulating adrenaline points beyond the activation limit.

Here’s an example of abilities for a two‑handed sword.
Two‑handed sword — emphasizing a dueling playstyle. Using a two‑handed sword doesn’t guarantee high damage, but it reduces the effectiveness of outside interference in your duel.
3* — attack with deep cuts; if successful, it strengthens the standard attack, and the enemy gets a curse that prevents them from healing for a while — a weakened version of the curse.
4* — two charged attacks; the next two attacks within 5 seconds don’t require recharging.
5* — leap backward while blocking an incoming attack (thanks to the bow for the idea).

I think the core mechanic is clear: a player using a two‑handed sword maintains anti‑heal on the target through “budget” cut attacks (boosting their effectiveness not only in duels but also in large‑scale battles). Two attacks that don’t need recharging give you an impulse to capitalize on a good opportunity. The leap back is a simple safety move. Each subsequent ability is more valuable than the last, which forces the player to manage their adrenaline balance.