The REAL issue with this game...

[MolagAmur]

You know what is really the issue? The trinkets.

Coming back to the game for the first time since launch and seeing how OP and expensive these trinkets are is wild. Aside from it promoting extreme RMT, it makes me feel like I'm playing a Korean mmo and I just hit max level going up against some dudes with end-game gear. The difference between someone who has practiced melee a ton and someone who hasn't is already a huge gap...now we add these +10% damage trinkets (x2) combined with defense reduction and a lot more HP on top of all that? Who fucking asked for this and who thought it would be a good idea?

Early Mortal Online had something EXTREMELY unique compared to MMO's with its balance of power. Your better (heavier) armor would have its drawbacks (stamina reduction) and your tungsteel weapons would weigh a bit more than steel but hit a bit harder. Things had pro's and con's...except Oghmium which is fine. Now we threw all that shit out the window for some korean p2w style trinkets that don't drop on death. If I want to get my hands on good trinkets...I have to no-life the game OR buy gold...which majority of the playerbase is doing btw.

This ain't the Mortal I loved. You can no longer practice and just bring skill and teamwork and be successful. You have to grind mastery for hundreds of hours and farm gold for even longer to be on the same level. If I wanted that I would just play a korean MMO...at least those have less bugs and are more optimized.

Guy returning to game: Reptile set with steel weapon. Bandages.
Guy who swipes or has been playing for a long time: Steel armor. Cronite or better weapon. Player skill. Potions. Mastery giving HP/Damage/Damage reduc/Stamina. TRINKETS.

I'm fine with the first couple. But my point is the gap was already large. Now its just not even fun to try to play catch up. Can't just login to the game anymore and grab a steel weapon, decent armor, regs, and have fun. You get zerged or you get gear-crutched on...or both.

Idk why they did all this...but this is why 90% of MO1 vets didn't return to play MO2...even though the game has many things that are a huge upgrade. Its a shame.

 

[Locke]

Exactly, and we STILL have NO catch-up mechanics. Not even something as simple as 2x Glory (Clade) XP gain for fledglings. The focus of the ingame "grind" should have just been kept on resources, as it was at the start of the game.

I just don't see how having such powerful character progression that you can never lose (mastery and trinkets) is in any way beneficial in a full loot full PvP MMO. Just a way to make the gap between new players and veterans even higher in a game which already had a huge gap on that.

The players kept with the sunken cost/investment on trinkets/mastery won't outperform the benefit you would have gotten from all the potential new players that get turned away by such idiotic grind that does not in any way belong in a full loot full pvp game with a skill based combat system.

Going for a Korean/Themepark MMO "endless type" character progression (mastery + orb + trinkets) instead of leaving the simple "Clade 20 then grind resources" was the second worst decision they took, only better than upgrading to UE5 + sub so early.

 

[MolagAmur]

The mastery and trinkets would be fine IF they existed for the sole reason of furthur customizing your build. The extra action and profession points are fine. Getting an amulet with +75 Primary skill and some attributes would have been plenty. Adding damage and defense values whats retarded and unnecessary.

The mastery and trinket grind was their lazy way of adding an "end game" loop. Rather than having a complex TC and reputation system...we get to sit in dungeons for our entire time playing the game praying for the RNG drop of a trinket. Then praying again for RNG to have the trinket roll well.

Its just...boring and lazy. Everyone sittin in dungeons grinding mobs all day.

 

[Gnidex]

Instead of making trinkets craftable, like the whole game's crafting system was designed to be they, for some obscure reason, decided to make the most important gear items drop from mobs and fishing and NOT BE DROPPABLE IN A FULL LOOT PVP GAME.
This was the beginning of the end for MO2 since it breaks the logic the only successful sandbox mmo games use (eve, albion, uo), which is that it's generally fast and easy to lvl up to be competitive, with the end game grinding revolving more about rare resources than char lvling. Add masteries to that and it's double fucked.
If trinkets would be craftable you'd end up with more resource sinks in the game too. Make them random and you've got an infinite loop of crafting and rerolling.
But nope, once again SV swings for the lowest branch possible. No wonder the game never took off the ground more than your small private server mmo.

 

[Teknique]

Everything in this thread is true and valid but it’s not THE REAL issue. It’s one of many. In my opinion the real issue is how much clunk was added to the game. Thats why “90% of mo vets are gone” because the game was INTENTIONALLY designed to piss off mo1 players by mo1 haters.

You see Mortal Online 2 was already birthed with cursed and dark energy. One of the first actions of the active player base during alpha ( I won’t call them mortal players as to not insult what the game was) was to attack and destroy the fundamentals of the game. It was pure hostility and Henrik gave them everything that they wanted. This really put mo2 on shaky foundation to begin with, if not just an outright ritual sacrifice of the mo1 player base. By launch we were already so far into the disaster zone that there was no coming back.

But yeah grinding your balls off for 20% blunt dmg is pureeee garbage

 

[manure]

Amen to that !
The trinkets should be droppable upon death, like everything else on a FULL LOOT PVP GAME....

And I will add 3 more things :
1- There should be FAR LESS guards and they should be weaker ! AND GUARDS SHOULD BE ONLY INSIDE TOWNS, NEVER OUTSIDE !!!
2- Where in the nine hells is THIEVING ??? Mortal Online always had thieving. Why havent they added this yet ? We are in 2025... WAKE UP DEV TEAM !
3- Boats, poisoning, lockpikcing and sea monsters !

Although the graphics are much better than in 2022, the same cant be said about the game rules.
I reiterate : This game was MUCH BETTER in February 2022

Was it 2022 or 2023 ? I forgot it... Whatever
Been waiting for thieving for so long... :{

 

[Zalgorn]

You know what is really the issue? The trinkets.

Coming back to the game for the first time since launch and seeing how OP and expensive these trinkets are is wild. Aside from it promoting extreme RMT, it makes me feel like I'm playing a Korean mmo and I just hit max level going up against some dudes with end-game gear. The difference between someone who has practiced melee a ton and someone who hasn't is already a huge gap...now we add these +10% damage trinkets (x2) combined with defense reduction and a lot more HP on top of all that? Who fucking asked for this and who thought it would be a good idea?

Early Mortal Online had something EXTREMELY unique compared to MMO's with its balance of power. Your better (heavier) armor would have its drawbacks (stamina reduction) and your tungsteel weapons would weight a bit more than steel but hit a bit harder. Things had pro's and con's...except Oghmium which is fine. Now we threw all that shit out the window for some korean p2w style trinkets that don't drop on death. If I want to get my hands on good trinkets...I have to no-life the game OR buy gold...which majority of the playerbase is doing btw.

This ain't the Mortal I loved. You can no longer practice and just bring skill and teamwork and be successful. You have to grind mastery for hundreds of hours and farm gold for even longer to be on the same level. If I wanted that I would just play a korean MMO...at least those have less bugs and are more optimized.

Guy returning to game: Reptile set with steel weapon. Bandages.
Guy who swipes or has been playing for a long time: Steel armor. Cronite or better weapon. Player skill. Potions. Mastery giving HP/Damage/Damage reduc/Stamina. TRINKETS.

I'm fine with the first couple. But my point is the gap was already large. Now its just not even fun to try to play catch up. Can't just login to the game anymore and grab a steel weapon, decent armor, regs, and have fun. You get zerged or you get gear-crutched on...or both.

Idk why they did all this...but this is why 90% of MO1 vets didn't return to play MO2...even though the game has many things that are a huge upgrade. Its a shame.

Most MO1 vets aren't playing this because it's a totally different game. Magic is OP in every which way and the melee system here is.....well fucking aids.

Nothing realistic about a guy wearing steel or heavier armor jumping in the air spinning 6 times while feinting 8 times. I'm sorry if you support it but anyone i've shown this crap to just says eff that.

MO1 had a FAR better melee system. Despite this being a newer game it's far behind in things that only make sense. Momentum mattering, weapon intertia. The global delay was also necessary to prevent some of the BS here such as insta hit transitions to an instant parry etc.

Sprint break should also honestly be a thing. A veela running away in a straight line, while getting hit and making no attempt to dodge or juke shouldn't have a get away free card.

 

[Turbizzler]

Most MO1 vets aren't playing this because it's a totally different game. Magic is OP in every which way and the melee system here is.....well fucking aids.

Nothing realistic about a guy wearing steel or heavier armor jumping in the air spinning 6 times while feinting 8 times. I'm sorry if you support it but anyone i've shown this crap to just says eff that.

MO1 had a FAR better melee system. Despite this being a newer game it's far behind in things that only make sense. Momentum mattering, weapon intertia. The global delay was also necessary to prevent some of the BS here such as insta hit transitions to an instant parry etc.

Sprint break should also honestly be a thing. A veela running away in a straight line, while getting hit and making no attempt to dodge or juke shouldn't have a get away free card.

Agree with everything, but sprint break. Was one of the worse "bugs"(SV's excuse of why it existed) about PvP in MO1. It made small scale and solo PvP cancer and benefited zergs too much, especially with everyone and their aunt fanny running pole swords or flanged maces. Made kiting and resets near impossible in the final years of MO1.

 

[Zalgorn]

Agree with everything, but sprint break. Was one of the worse "bugs"(SV's excuse of why it existed) about PvP in MO1. It made small scale and solo PvP cancer and benefited zergs too much, especially with everyone and their aunt fanny running pole swords or flanged maces. Made kiting and resets near impossible in the final years of MO1.

It also only makes perfect sense though. If you're sprinting full bore and get cranked with a weapon, you're not going to keep going like nothing happened. It made footwork and the ability to juke have meaning.

Could be lived without if the melee weren't garbage.

 

[Sally]

They should just align the veteran system with the clade system. So, you're leveling veterans AND clade at the same time.

This not only makes progression feel more rewarding, but it evens the playing field as people approach endgame. Then the only significant gap that exists is trinkets.

I imagine on those final two clades may be where a lot of people may give up, because they are a HUGE grind.

 

[Kuthara]

You know what is really the issue? The trinkets.

Coming back to the game for the first time since launch and seeing how OP and expensive these trinkets are is wild. Aside from it promoting extreme RMT, it makes me feel like I'm playing a Korean mmo and I just hit max level going up against some dudes with end-game gear. The difference between someone who has practiced melee a ton and someone who hasn't is already a huge gap...now we add these +10% damage trinkets (x2) combined with defense reduction and a lot more HP on top of all that? Who fucking asked for this and who thought it would be a good idea?

Early Mortal Online had something EXTREMELY unique compared to MMO's with its balance of power. Your better (heavier) armor would have its drawbacks (stamina reduction) and your tungsteel weapons would weight a bit more than steel but hit a bit harder. Things had pro's and con's...except Oghmium which is fine. Now we threw all that shit out the window for some korean p2w style trinkets that don't drop on death. If I want to get my hands on good trinkets...I have to no-life the game OR buy gold...which majority of the playerbase is doing btw.

This ain't the Mortal I loved. You can no longer practice and just bring skill and teamwork and be successful. You have to grind mastery for hundreds of hours and farm gold for even longer to be on the same level. If I wanted that I would just play a korean MMO...at least those have less bugs and are more optimized.

Guy returning to game: Reptile set with steel weapon. Bandages.
Guy who swipes or has been playing for a long time: Steel armor. Cronite or better weapon. Player skill. Potions. Mastery giving HP/Damage/Damage reduc/Stamina. TRINKETS.

I'm fine with the first couple. But my point is the gap was already large. Now its just not even fun to try to play catch up. Can't just login to the game anymore and grab a steel weapon, decent armor, regs, and have fun. You get zerged or you get gear-crutched on...or both.

Idk why they did all this...but this is why 90% of MO1 vets didn't return to play MO2...even though the game has many things that are a huge upgrade. Its a shame.

You need to add Mastery onto that which can provide some significant bonuses. 90 Mastery is baseline now for a pvp ready char.

Then add Orbs...

 

[ElPerro]

It also only makes perfect sense though. If you're sprinting full bore and get cranked with a weapon, you're not going to keep going like nothing happened. It made footwork and the ability to juke have meaning.

Could be lived without if the melee weren't garbage.

There is no footwork or juking in MO2 anyways because they slowed down the runspeed to a crawl, thanks to some alpha testers that only wanted to play ping pong parry duels and Henrik thinking it would fix prediction, but it did jack shit. Now any type of figure 8ing is seen as a noob or "mo1 boomer" tactic because its so ineffective.

I still remember when stickybacking took skill, at this point I would take MO1 combat back in a heartbeat tbh. We need MO1 remaster before MO3

 

[Emdash]

yea been saying that tho. I even spammed it in the discord. I finally left, defeated.

There has to be some lootable end game content that isn't mastery or trinks.

I mean, trinks are just too gamey. The percentages totally break the system (which was already kinda wonky as it is.)

If you want gamey mechanics, should add something like if you are farming certain enemies you can get a buff that lasts x hours (flat chance each kill, more for boss mobs,) and then when you die the person who killed you gets the buff, etc etc until it runs out.

It's really hard to imagine why Trinkets are in the game other than to encourage RMT heh.

 

[Zalgorn]

There is no footwork or juking in MO2 anyways because they slowed down the runspeed to a crawl, thanks to some alpha testers that only wanted to play ping pong parry duels and Henrik thinking it would fix prediction, but it did jack shit. Now any type of figure 8ing is seen as a noob or "mo1 boomer" tactic because its so ineffective.

I still remember when stickybacking took skill, at this point I would take MO1 combat back in a heartbeat tbh. We need MO1 remaster before MO3

won't matter in the end. as much as i hate it the problem with mortal has ever been that they don't listen to their actual community.

 

[MolagAmur]

Game just sucks. I'm going to come back for Sarducca to explore it...but if they don't address the trinket issue (which is my main issue) then its cooked. The fact there are trinkets that drop that aren't even worth carrying in your inventory is another dumb thing. At first I liked the idea of the trinkets, but I didn't know how awful they are for the games PvP.

The endgame is literally just a trinket grind. A slog. And guess what...the people farming the best trinkets spots are the people with 50k gold trinkets in steel armor with Ogh weapons and potions...because that is THE endgame. Its not guild wars, its not sieges, its not territory control...its sitting in a dungeon. How fun. Guilds sitting afk with 8 relics because nobody wants or cares to take them. SV can't fail so hard at the most important part of the endame (guild pvp and tc) and expect things to go well. Are they trying hard to improve it? No...they are adding roaming fucking ants lmfao.

gg

 

[Teknique]

There is no footwork or juking in MO2 anyways because they slowed down the runspeed to a crawl, thanks to some alpha testers that only wanted to play ping pong parry duels and Henrik thinking it would fix prediction, but it did jack shit. Now any type of figure 8ing is seen as a noob or "mo1 boomer" tactic because its so ineffective.

I still remember when stickybacking took skill, at this point I would take MO1 combat back in a heartbeat tbh. We need MO1 remaster before MO3

Alpha was such an amazing time when we had actual mortal combat in ue4. Most fun few months ever and there were some states where the combat was nearly perfect. You were one of the few mo players who were actually there to witness the horrors.

Sucks that I’m so toxic that I literally killed the game just by existing. Please add that to my mo legacy. Literally killed the game just by playing it. If I had just fucking logged off instead of clocking 1k hours in alpha we would still have MO. Actually crazy work. Please write the gospel of perro baring witness how I swiped my mouse across the desk so hard that the game just died.

Dumb dumb mouth breather couldn’t resist making his “community feedback nutlick sessions” to brainstorm the best ways to ruin combat from a dude who played mo for like 2 months. Imagine bursting into anywhere with 0 experience and then just changing everything to your liking. How narcissistic can one person be.

 

[fartbox]

Game just sucks. I'm going to come back for Sarducca to explore it...but if they don't address the trinket issue (which is my main issue) then its cooked. The fact there are trinkets that drop that aren't even worth carrying in your inventory is another dumb thing. At first I liked the idea of the trinkets, but I didn't know how awful they are for the games PvP.

The endgame is literally just a trinket grind. A slog. And guess what...the people farming the best trinkets spots are the people with 50k gold trinkets in steel armor with Ogh weapons and potions...because that is THE endgame. Its not guild wars, its not sieges, its not territory control...its sitting in a dungeon. How fun. Guilds sitting afk with 8 relics because nobody wants or cares to take them. SV can't fail so hard at the most important part of the endame (guild pvp and tc) and expect things to go well. Are they trying hard to improve it? No...they are adding roaming fucking ants lmfao.

gg

What loop do you suggest to replace trinkets for ultra end game build fine tuning? Because spoiler: This type of grind is standard for the genre. I can give examples from each of the big three (EVE,OSRS,Albion) if you are unfamiliar with mechanics employed by other studios in the genre.

Trinkets imo is one of the things Starvault has excelled at balancing. A reasonable beginner set of 10% dmg rings and beginner ruber neck with triple def are all under 10kea now. You can get 8% topaz's for 3-5k. Average gold rates are around 100-200g/hr not including rare drops. Meaning you can get a triple def neck and 16% damage in around 100 hours of gameplay. Which is trivial for MMO grinds. Thats not counting if you get a ruber drop during that 100 hours.

The difference between that beginner set and a ultra end game tuned set is minimal on output but maximal on time investment. Meaning you have to spend alot of time for very small gains, which is fine and very standard in the genre.


Are you playing in a zerg where you get no loot or something? Gold is super accessible right now, you can get 10% dmg on cuprums in a couple of hours of farming. Even if you're in a communist guild you should be able to scrape enough together for a 10% cuprum set? the difference between 10% set and 22% set is about 3-4 dmg on steel per hit.


You have to remember this is a Sandbox MMO. It's not a game of quake. End game min/max loops are 100% necessary for this game-type.

Also TC is not a primary game loop in any game that employs it. If you want the stats; In both Rust and EVE, the two most popular games with Territory Control, players spend less then 2% of their total game time involved in "Sieges". It's something that happens on average 1 time a week at most for most players. Vrising comes to mind where players spend the most game time involved in siege mechanics but even in that game, it doesn't touch 5% of the total game time played.

Your comments about it suggest that you are uneducated/uninformed about the genre as a whole. Large group content is actually the least popular design choice, Most players in other games spend 90% of game time either alone or in a group >5. Mortal already has a ton of large group content, all the end game objectives are large group content...which is why it is unpopular....and you want more of it?

If you doubt the popularity of large group content focused games, then look no further then Ashes of Creation, which despite putting out patches twice a month on average they cannot retain any players. They have recently decided to completely close their EU servers, on the debut of their most anticipated patch "Rogue".

Inb4 you cite DAOC or Warhammer as large group content focused *previously* popular games. Both of those games employ faction warfare to make that happen...Faction warfare is matchmaking, in case you weren't aware. Matchmaking is the only thing that can support regularity in large group content, because it makes it accessible.

Invasions will be popular because they cover wide areas, move around and will be difficult to gatekeep. Invasion patch will be infinitely more popular then Relic or TC patch. I stand by my prediction.

 

[MolagAmur]

What loop do you suggest to replace trinkets for ultra end game build fine tuning? Because spoiler: This type of grind is standard for the genre. I can give examples from each of the big three (EVE,OSRS,Albion) if you are unfamiliar with mechanics employed by other studios in the genre.

Trinkets imo is one of the things Starvault has excelled at balancing. A reasonable beginner set of 10% dmg rings and beginner ruber neck with triple def are all under 10kea now. You can get 8% topaz's for 3-5k. Average gold rates are around 100-200g/hr not including rare drops. Meaning you can get a triple def neck and 16% damage in around 100 hours of gameplay. Which is trivial for MMO grinds. Thats not counting if you get a ruber drop during that 100 hours.

The difference between that beginner set and a ultra end game tuned set is minimal on output but maximal on time investment. Meaning you have to spend alot of time for very small gains, which is fine and very standard in the genre.


Are you playing in a zerg where you get no loot or something? Gold is super accessible right now, you can get 10% dmg on cuprums in a couple of hours of farming. Even if you're in a communist guild you should be able to scrape enough together for a 10% cuprum set? the difference between 10% set and 22% set is about 3-4 dmg on steel per hit.


You have to remember this is a Sandbox MMO. It's not a game of quake. End game min/max loops are 100% necessary for this game-type.

Also TC is not a primary game loop in any game that employs it. If you want the stats; In both Rust and EVE, the two most popular games with Territory Control, players spend less then 2% of their total game time involved in "Sieges". It's something that happens on average 1 time a week at most for most players. Vrising comes to mind where players spend the most game time involved in siege mechanics but even in that game, it doesn't touch 5% of the total game time played.

Your comments about it suggest that you are uneducated/uninformed about the genre as a whole. Large group content is actually the least popular design choice, Most players in other games spend 90% of game time either alone or in a group >5. Mortal already has a ton of large group content, all the end game objectives are large group content...which is why it is unpopular....and you want more of it?

If you doubt the popularity of large group content focused games, then look no further then Ashes of Creation, which despite putting out patches twice a month on average they cannot retain any players. They have recently decided to completely close their EU servers, on the debut of their most anticipated patch "Rogue".

Inb4 you cite DAOC or Warhammer as large group content focused *previously* popular games. Both of those games employ faction warfare to make that happen...Faction warfare is matchmaking, in case you weren't aware. Matchmaking is the only thing that can support regularity in large group content, because it makes it accessible.

Invasions will be popular because they cover wide areas, move around and will be difficult to gatekeep. Invasion patch will be infinitely more popular then Relic or TC patch. I stand by my prediction.

Yeah not reading all that. From your first paragraph though it seems you didn't read my post either.

I will say there are many ways to have a better endgame than what the "standard for mmos" is. Endgame in MO1 was much more alive and we didn't have any huge gold sink or RNG trinket garbage to give us artifical content.

 

[fartbox]

Yeah not reading all that. From your first paragraph though it seems you didn't read my post either.

I will say there are many ways to have a better endgame than what the "standard for mmos" is. Endgame in MO1 was much more alive and we didn't have any huge gold sink or RNG trinket garbage to give us artifical content.

My reply was in reply to the entire thread, it was only 20% longer then your original post.

You said alot of things that are objectively wrong in this thread. I had to prove you wrong, but with evidence and supporting arguments, which can be time consuming. People who lack the ability to "prove" someone wrong are just stating opinion. My conclusions are not opinion, it is consensus, therefore it is truth.

Also MO1 averaged 200 players or less for most of its life. MO2 is already at a minimum at least 3 times more successful then MO1. Some things about MO1 may of been good, but it was objectively a bad game, therefore we shouldn't model after it.

 

[Zalgorn]

Also MO1 averaged 200 players or less for most of its life. MO2 is already at a minimum at least 3 times more successful then MO1. Some things about MO1 may of been good, but it was objectively a bad game, therefore we shouldn't model after it.

You lost credibility at this point. MO1's population was better than that. If you're looking at steam charts for your data you are wrong as more were using the regular client outside of steam and steam release didn't happen for years.