Not Hard-Core Enough. Ghosting, Home Points and Haven

Kebek

Active member
Jan 11, 2021
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We need new people to play the game. Some of them die 20+ times a day.


Also, imagine getting stuck in a crack in the rock and not being able to suicide and teleport to a priest. You might not get out for a week in certain time zones.
New characters don't lose much when they need to reroll. This really looks like grasping at straws.

If you used up all your lives knowing the game is buggy and you need a suicide...tough luck. Spend your next lives more wisely.

Don't see why the supposed "hardcore players" are such big fans of handholding.
 
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[AF]Tyrone

Member
Dec 17, 2020
69
30
18
The home priest and nearest priest mechanics have really changed the vibe of MO.

people used to really live and base out of towns. Now everyone can home priest across the map and travel faster than a horse in ghost mode

i hope home priest gets removed and ghost speed is nerfed
 
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LivingshadeNL

Active member
Mar 23, 2021
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Not everyone has no job.. like what are u suggesting removing home priest or whatever? so a good 50% of my daily time spent in mortal will be traveling on foot/horse(without advanced riding).. i really have no clue where all these ideas keep coming from lately.
 
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LivingshadeNL

Active member
Mar 23, 2021
140
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The home priest and nearest priest mechanics have really changed the vibe of MO.

people used to really live and base out of towns. Now everyone can home priest across the map and travel faster than a horse in ghost mode

i hope home priest gets removed and ghost speed is nerfed
yeah so we can all quit our jobs and spent all our days travelling a mostly empty map ! , fun times.
 
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Rorry

Well-known member
May 30, 2020
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New characters don't lose much when they need to reroll. This really looks like grasping at straws.

If you used up all your lives knowing the game is buggy and you need a suicide...tough luck. Spend your next lives more wisely.

Don't see why the supposed "hardcore players" are such big fans of handholding.
It doesn't matter that you don't think what new players lose is valuable. Try forming a guild dedicated to helping new players and then tell them that everything they do today will be lost and they will need to do it again in a couple of days. See how many remain in a month. (The answer is very few to none. )
 

Turbizzler

Active member
May 28, 2020
121
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Fabernum
Ah yes, lets just make it MO2 a 9 to 5 job for everyone, to do something as basic as buying a 50 silver book. Great idea!

People have lives dude, hardcore does not = tedium. If that was the case, every Asian MMO on the market would be hardcore, because you literally have to be a no life get anywhere. So hardcore.
 

cerqo

Active member
Mar 17, 2021
120
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Lmao i was about to post the exact same thing. Dogshit tedious cancer gameplay does not EQUAL HARDCORE. Extraction timers? Not a hardcore mechanic lmao, just tedious trash.

This game on the contrary needs MORE ways to get around faster BADLY. They increase the map size 10 fold to "support the larger playerbase" but dont really add any faster and new ways of getting around, apart from home priest and nearest priest that is (which are great changes).

Running around an empty map the size of MO1 was already cancer. Now we have an even bigger, emptier map. The fact most foot builds in MO1 couldnt ride a horse didnt make the game hardcore. It made it tedious and trash, which is why riding is now a secondary.
 

Kebek

Active member
Jan 11, 2021
227
162
43
It doesn't matter that you don't think what new players lose is valuable. Try forming a guild dedicated to helping new players and then tell them that everything they do today will be lost and they will need to do it again in a couple of days. See how many remain in a month. (The answer is very few to none. )
It's not a matter of opinion. New players will have less gold and time invested in their characters.
A char that has all skills maxed and pumped 2 weeks and 100 gold into it is objectively more valuable than a char that's 3 days old and doesn't even have a single skill maxed yet.
 

Shiroi

New member
Apr 26, 2021
24
6
3
The home priest and nearest priest mechanics have really changed the vibe of MO.

people used to really live and base out of towns. Now everyone can home priest across the map and travel faster than a horse in ghost mode

i hope home priest gets removed and ghost speed is nerfed
Oh my God thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to express but some people don't seem to get it.

Some people seem to think that you're supposed to be able to do anything you want.

What I'm trying to say is that you are NOT supposed to be able to travel from one side of the map to the other so easily, quickly and without risk.

Let me be clear, I am NOT suggesting to make it so "tedious" that only those of us without jobs (lol) will be able to do it. WHAT I AM SUGGESTING is to make it SO prohibitively difficult that most people simply won't even think about doing it.

Just like in medieval times, nobody who lived in Europe woke up one morning and suddenly decided that they were going to take a trip to Japan just because they had a sudden craving for sushi.

That didn't mean that nobody traveled around. There were still great adventurers and explorers like Marco Polo. And there was a lot of trade between Asia and Europe.

Similarly, there will still be players, usually in big groups, who decide to undertake such long trips. Be it for war, trade or simply for experience of adventure and exploration, which would be even the more meaningful with the increased risk.

My point is, and just as Tyrone said, the WHOLE vibe and game experience changes when you add or remove a simple game mechanic such as home teleporting or ghosting. Not unlike consensual PVP.

Cheers
 

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
1,329
939
113
Ah yes, lets just make it MO2 a 9 to 5 job for everyone, to do something as basic as buying a 50 silver book. Great idea!
If a 50s book is only found in jungle camp, and you live in Fab, the point of that isn't that you should need to take a trip to Jungle Camp for a 50s book. If the trade system is good, it should be available in Fab. For 50s + markup the trader is able to charge because they took the time and risk to transport it back up to Fab.

This system falls flat though when there are no real trade systems as people don't want to spend all day spamming "Want to sell Magmum Lore!" in chat.
 

Rorry

Well-known member
May 30, 2020
959
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Kansas
Oh my God thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to express but some people don't seem to get it.

Some people seem to think that you're supposed to be able to do anything you want.

What I'm trying to say is that you are NOT supposed to be able to travel from one side of the map to the other so easily, quickly and without risk.

Let me be clear, I am NOT suggesting to make it so "tedious" that only those of us without jobs (lol) will be able to do it. WHAT I AM SUGGESTING is to make it SO prohibitively difficult that most people simply won't even think about doing it.

Just like in medieval times, nobody who lived in Europe woke up one morning and suddenly decided that they were going to take a trip to Japan just because they had a sudden craving for sushi.

That didn't mean that nobody traveled around. There were still great adventurers and explorers like Marco Polo. And there was a lot of trade between Asia and Europe.

Similarly, there will still be players, usually in big groups, who decide to undertake such long trips. Be it for war, trade or simply for experience of adventure and exploration, which would be even the more meaningful with the increased risk.

My point is, and just as Tyrone said, the WHOLE vibe and game experience changes when you add or remove a simple game mechanic such as home teleporting or ghosting. Not unlike consensual PVP.

Cheers
SV has to balance between immersion and quality of life in game. It is a fine line. If they make it too tedious they lose some population and that can start a gradual spiral because when the pop drops the predators start to lose interest and the trader's business drops off, etc.
They have already made several changes towards more immersion with this new game i.e. single character per account, and much greater distances between towns, so I think they need to be cautious about adding tedium to the changes already made.
This beta period does not necessarily reflect the way people will play after the game goes live. For example, there will soon be animals, pve, and ways to increase standing in every area of the map so some reasons for travel will fade away or change immediately.
 

Kelzyr

Active member
Sep 22, 2020
212
178
43
Even if you get rid of the Nearest Priest button people will still ghost travel to other towns. The nearest priest option only cuts the travel time down by a little, and you risk teleporting backwards if you're not careful.

The home priest allows for people to travel without the extra annoyance of having to ghost travel back home (in the case you die). The map is already so much bigger than it was, and when they add more continents it will be even more tedious if you want to explore.

I don't think you should have to decide to carve out a whole day just to go on an adventure where half of it, or more if you're a low psyche warrior (assuming they re-implement the ghost speed based on psyche), could be ghost running back to a priest.

Just like in medieval times, nobody who lived in Europe woke up one morning and suddenly decided that they were going to take a trip to Japan just because they had a sudden craving for sushi.

That didn't mean that nobody traveled around. There were still great adventurers and explorers like Marco Polo. And there was a lot of trade between Asia and Europe.
This is a video game where most people play to be like Marco Polo, not just like their real life where they can't go on epic adventures but rather stay in their town or region because they don't have time to explore after they finish their real life responsibilities.
 
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Archiel

Active member
Apr 5, 2021
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SV has to balance between immersion and quality of life in game. It is a fine line. If they make it too tedious they lose some population and that can start a gradual spiral because when the pop drops the predators start to lose interest and the trader's business drops off, etc.
They have already made several changes towards more immersion with this new game i.e. single character per account, and much greater distances between towns, so I think they need to be cautious about adding tedium to the changes already made.
This beta period does not necessarily reflect the way people will play after the game goes live. For example, there will soon be animals, pve, and ways to increase standing in every area of the map so some reasons for travel will fade away or change immediately.
Not to mention that when Auction Houses are in game, travelling merchants will be prominent and people won't be home priesting as much because they can buy those books for an increased amount.
 

LivingshadeNL

Active member
Mar 23, 2021
140
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Oh my God thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to express but some people don't seem to get it.

Some people seem to think that you're supposed to be able to do anything you want.

What I'm trying to say is that you are NOT supposed to be able to travel from one side of the map to the other so easily, quickly and without risk.

Let me be clear, I am NOT suggesting to make it so "tedious" that only those of us without jobs (lol) will be able to do it. WHAT I AM SUGGESTING is to make it SO prohibitively difficult that most people simply won't even think about doing it.

Just like in medieval times, nobody who lived in Europe woke up one morning and suddenly decided that they were going to take a trip to Japan just because they had a sudden craving for sushi.

That didn't mean that nobody traveled around. There were still great adventurers and explorers like Marco Polo. And there was a lot of trade between Asia and Europe.

Similarly, there will still be players, usually in big groups, who decide to undertake such long trips. Be it for war, trade or simply for experience of adventure and exploration, which would be even the more meaningful with the increased risk.

My point is, and just as Tyrone said, the WHOLE vibe and game experience changes when you add or remove a simple game mechanic such as home teleporting or ghosting. Not unlike consensual PVP.

Cheers
Thats the longest way of saying i like traveling for hours on a daily basis. The map is oversized allready and i cant even imagine if they add nordveld and sarducca
 
Last edited:

Shiroi

New member
Apr 26, 2021
24
6
3
SV has to balance between immersion and quality of life in game. It is a fine line. If they make it too tedious they lose some population and that can start a gradual spiral because when the pop drops the predators start to lose interest and the trader's business drops off, etc.
They have already made several changes towards more immersion with this new game i.e. single character per account, and much greater distances between towns, so I think they need to be cautious about adding tedium to the changes already made.
This beta period does not necessarily reflect the way people will play after the game goes live. For example, there will soon be animals, pve, and ways to increase standing in every area of the map so some reasons for travel will fade away or change immediately.
Maybe you're right. I wouldn't presume to know best what would make this game a success or a failure. I'm merely discussing a game mechanic that I personally think would make the game more enjoyable for myself and I was curious to know what other MO2 players thought about it.

This being said, please don't forget that most of us here are not playing MO2 looking for a mainstream experience. If we were, we would be playing one of the hundreds of the much more polished and less buggy (sorry SV but just keeping it real) mainstream mmos out there instead.

The reason we play and support MO is because SV has the ambition to create a unique experience that no big studio or developer out there dares to attempt because it is risky from a business perspective.
 

Kelzyr

Active member
Sep 22, 2020
212
178
43
Maybe you're right. I wouldn't presume to know best what would make this game a success or a failure. I'm merely discussing a game mechanic that I personally think would make the game more enjoyable for myself and I was curious to know what other MO2 players thought about it.
I re-read your first post to remind myself of your desires for the mechanic. I think the only way what you are suggesting could be accomplished (basically no ghost running to locations) would have to be at time of death you have to decide to rez at nearest priest or home priest and completely remove the ghost aspect of the game.

You also suggested that your ghost can only move a certain distance away from the nearest priest, which could also fix the ghost travel problem, but you would be introducing a reality that people would have to rez at the nearest priest when they die, then walk back home naked.

This will be a problem if priest camping is still possible, as it will require a person to log out until the priest is no longer camped. Or in some cases (like how GK was priest camped for weeks straight) your character is literally locked out of the game because there is no closer priest that isn't being camped.
 
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Shiroi

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Apr 26, 2021
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Even if you get rid of the Nearest Priest button people will still ghost travel to other towns. The nearest priest option only cuts the travel time down by a little, and you risk teleporting backwards if you're not careful.

The home priest allows for people to travel without the extra annoyance of having to ghost travel back home (in the case you die). The map is already so much bigger than it was, and when they add more continents it will be even more tedious if you want to explore.

I don't think you should have to decide to carve out a whole day just to go on an adventure where half of it, or more if you're a low psyche warrior (assuming they re-implement the ghost speed based on psyche), could be ghost running back to a priest.
What I am suggesting is removing, (or at least seriously nerfing) all 3: Home priest, ghosting as well as nearest priest. So no point comparing the differences between them since I personally want them all gone.

This is a video game where most people play to be like Marco Polo, not just like their real life where they can't go on epic adventures but rather stay in their town or region because they don't have time to explore after they finish their real life responsibilities.
I don't think Marco Polo ghosted from Italy to China just to learn the recipe for noodles then quickly killed himself and then clicked on home button to get back home to invent spaghetti.
I know this is a video game and because it is a video game, people have the opportunity to undertake great adventures just like Marco Polo did in real life but instead in a video game setting where their real life safety is not at risk.
The purpose of the adventure is the journey itself, not the destination. That's the fun part. Think of the Hobbit. The first movie of the trilogy is even called "An unexpected Journey".
I seriously never understood this new tendency in the past few years of creating huge open worlds and developers bragging about how their latest games have and even bigger open world than other games, when everyone seems to think it's a hassle to adventure in these worlds and just want a quick way to get around. That's why mainstream mmos all have teleportation. My questions is why bother creating a huge world? Seriously, what's the point? Why not just make a smaller and compact world that people can conveniently travel around?
 
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Shiroi

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Apr 26, 2021
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Not to mention that when Auction Houses are in game, travelling merchants will be prominent and people won't be home priesting as much because they can buy those books for an increased amount.
That's the thing though.

Ask yourself how much you would be willing to pay for a book that costs 50S and that's only available in the Jungle camp while you're based in Fab with the current mechanics.

And now ask yourself the same question if you couldn't ghost, home point or nearest point teleport.
 

Shiroi

New member
Apr 26, 2021
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Thats the longest way of saying i like traveling for hours on a daily basis. The map is oversized allready and i cant even imagine if they add nordveld and sarducca
Seriously, if that's what you understood from what I said, then I don't know what to tell you man. Because it is almost the exact opposite of what I was trying to say.

Please read what I wrote again and try to understand what people are actually saying before you comment.

Cheers