New Logout System Unacceptable

Yeonan

Member
Nov 28, 2020
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There were better ways to accomplish what they were hoping to.

Other games have done it, logout timer kicks in if you've been hit in the last x amount of time... 5 min universal timer outside of towns...

It feels like they traded the easily exploitable system from mo1 for an overly punishing system in mo2.

And if camps are going to be implemented as a way to circumvent the timer then why have the timer in the first place? Unless camps will be difficult/rare? Then we are back to square one with time wasting mechanics.

I'm not sure what a 30 minute timer accomplishes other than an avenue to get fucked.

If you're going to have this timer, make it so a character stays logged in until the timer is up. Keeping the character in the game world is a very odd decision
 

Piet

Active member
May 28, 2020
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I see a entire thread of people who care. You were absolutely wrong about camps and are just doubling down.
Beta is not a excuse for this situation. Beta is a excuse for technical issues, bad balancing, lack of content, and some mistakes.

This was beyond a mistake, it was a conscious decision to implement mechanics that hurt a lot of the aspects of the game to fix a few minor game design issues. It should have been delayed untill camps were ready which Henrik said they were not ready yet on discord.

Testing a systems as harsh as this logout system with out the mechanic to remove the penalties is just bad development. They are just punishing the testers for testing. Might as well removed the x100 exp since its just beta who cares.

Yeah its beta and as beta testers we are supposed to give our feedback and as feedback this decision was GARBARGE and POINTLESS for testing. Welcome to being a beta tester. Each patch makes the game worse and harder to find a reason to play which is supposed to be the opposite of what occurs in beta. I wrote all of this even though you are acting in bad faith and have no intention to actually discuss this issue, because people like you always making excuses for bad development are part of the problem that needs to be solved for this game to be great.
It's half a system. Ya they should have put the full system in at once but the system as they have said it will be sounds like a very good system. Can't judge the whole system as bad when you're only looking at half of it.
 
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Konrad

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Feb 24, 2021
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It's half a system. Ya they should have put the full system in at once but the system as they have said it will be sounds like a very good system. Can't judge the whole system as bad when you're only looking at half of it.
Either way its a step in-to a right direction towards combat logging, client crashing, boss room farming and ninja sieges. Those things were too easy in MO1 and I'm happy they are looked at properly now. For now it sucks for basically everyone but lets be honest game is dead, nobody will find you in the fucking bush in the middle of the jungle in 30mins other than really random small chance. Lets wait and see how the other 'part' of this feature will look like and than judge it.
 
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Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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It's half a system. Ya they should have put the full system in at once but the system as they have said it will be sounds like a very good system. Can't judge the whole system as bad when you're only looking at half of it.
The judgment is of not implementing the the full system still. Which is a common tread in mistakes SV does over and over again. Thats my real issue is half implementation of systems designed to punish the player with out the fix. One reason the beta is "dead" and that no one might look in a bush is because of this trend of development mistakes that has been going on since mo1 and probably wont stop at the end of beta.

The reason people are saying its unacceptable is because its half a systems that is especially damaging to peoples time preventing time gating a lot of activities in a already heavily time gated game.
Like if we are not allowed to judge half of the system when why put it in for us to test?

And we can still judge parts of it like making your character stay in game but forcing the client to close you out of protecting yourself if you got caught. That part just doesnt make sense and I really hope they change it. I l'll be fine with sitting in a bush for 30 min and doing some IRL chores while I watch out for my characters log of.
 

Piet

Active member
May 28, 2020
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The judgment is of not implementing the the full system still. Which is a common tread in mistakes SV does over and over again. Thats my real issue is half implementation of systems designed to punish the player with out the fix. One reason the beta is "dead" and that no one might look in a bush is because of this trend of development mistakes that has been going on since mo1 and probably wont stop at the end of beta.

The reason people are saying its unacceptable is because its half a systems that is especially damaging to peoples time preventing time gating a lot of activities in a already heavily time gated game.
Like if we are not allowed to judge half of the system when why put it in for us to test?

And we can still judge parts of it like making your character stay in game but forcing the client to close you out of protecting yourself if you got caught. That part just doesnt make sense and I really hope they change it. I l'll be fine with sitting in a bush for 30 min and doing some IRL chores while I watch out for my characters log of.
Ahh my bad I get you on the they should have fully implemented the system instead of half of it thing.
 
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ZVNII

Member
Jun 17, 2021
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I loged out in the fab broker last night. Regular logout in a safe zone. Loged in dead today.

That being said I really think that this system has teh right ideas, however it needs a lot of tweaking. For example how is it that cave camp is not a safe log out zone. It has a bank. The only thing this does it let me (naked) and my horse be killed in the 30 mins it takes me to leave server. There is a need to prevent ninja log outs, ambush logins and general abuse of a the system that we had in mo1.

I just wish content was not rushed into the game in a very poor state that makes teh game unenjoyable. That being said we are playing on a closed beta server that is meant to help the devs with testing their build. As such one should not get upset when the game is not as enjoyable as a full game could be.

On a final note: Please don't rush persistence, I don't think a half arshed early access with subscription system is acceptable.
 

Elijah

New member
Jun 17, 2021
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3
The new logout system is unacceptable. Being able to get killed after you are logged out is pretty much one of the worst systems an mmo can have. I dont put time into making gear and roaming so I can be killed while my character is waiting to log out when I can't fight back. Staying logged in after logging out was my least fav feature about games like Conan Exiles, which I quit paying extremely quickly. In MO2 its only for 30 mins luckily, but thats still enough to risk dying offline, which just shouldn't be a risk at all.

All this change will do is kill roaming. The world is too big so I'm going to want to log out and not ride back to town if I don't have a need to ride back. But I'm not going to want to risk dying when a random person finds me logged out in the 30 mins before I disappear, which will happen more often if the player base is good. Theres no benefit to this system besides making people like me not want to play because I'm just going to die logged out.

My counter proposal. Just make it a 5-10 min logout timer in the wild. But once you log, your logged out. This will kill combat logging. Also make it so boulders are dropped to the ground / you cant logout with them.

New Dungeon logout system is fine.
More acceptable than the old one. They're moving in the right direction. They need to tie it to combat somehow so casual explorers can log out pretty quickly. Say if you've been hit in the last 10min, then you get a 30 min times to log out. If you haven't taken a hit, then you can log out in 2min or whatever. Either way, having a 30min timer when you aren't in a safe area is better than having scrubs that can't actually fight abusing the logout system. Like has been happening for quite a time here.
 

Elijah

New member
Jun 17, 2021
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Absolutely brain dead change by SV. Please remove this “feature” and just make it a 5 minute log off timer in the wild.

this shit makes me not want to log into the game anymore.
Then don't. Stay out the game if you have that big of an issue with SV. You're obv braindead yourself. Expecting a game in test phase to have all it's systems properly implemented.
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Then don't. Stay out the game if you have that big of an issue with SV. You're obv braindead yourself. Expecting a game in test phase to have all it's systems properly implemented.
Why put in half the system and then tell us we arent allowed to give feedback on testing it? Not directing this at the devs, but there is a mentality among some of the community that you cant complain about the beta. Some people dont complain in moderation which hurts us that have solid complaints. They could have just waited and put the main mechanic of the system in then people would have less of a issue.

Also hes allowed to say that he thinks it should be a 5min instead of a 30min. I think since they didnt add campfires they should have just adjusted the times accordingly so its not so harsh on the time people take out of their lives to spend being the much needed testers for this Beta.
 
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Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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More acceptable than the old one. They're moving in the right direction. They need to tie it to combat somehow so casual explorers can log out pretty quickly. Say if you've been hit in the last 10min, then you get a 30 min times to log out. If you haven't taken a hit, then you can log out in 2min or whatever. Either way, having a 30min timer when you aren't in a safe area is better than having scrubs that can't actually fight abusing the logout system. Like has been happening for quite a time here.
There was no combat logging in MO1. We didn't need this punishing system to stop a Beta only problem.
 
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Minyiky

New member
Dec 10, 2020
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I had my first experience of being an offline punching bag today, didn't have anything on me as I had banked it in jungle but my horse was dead, and worse than being dead, I had apparently been repeatedly beaten up so my health reserves were basically 0, I have now had to run all the way back and also need to get some food because I am at risk of dropping a weight class (but that is a separate issue).

If camps are one use that is terrible, what if you don't take enough with you, guess you are s**t out of luck, especially if you have to log out quickly a couple of times to do something. Please make camps soulbound in some way such that you can always log out and actually leave the world even if you can't do other things like cook.

How about a cold camp as a soulbound item but you can pack a campfire and can cook / get boosted reserves while you sleep.
 

Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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I had my first experience of being an offline punching bag today, didn't have anything on me as I had banked it in jungle but my horse was dead, and worse than being dead, I had apparently been repeatedly beaten up so my health reserves were basically 0, I have now had to run all the way back and also need to get some food because I am at risk of dropping a weight class (but that is a separate issue).

If camps are one use that is terrible, what if you don't take enough with you, guess you are s**t out of luck, especially if you have to log out quickly a couple of times to do something. Please make camps soulbound in some way such that you can always log out and actually leave the world even if you can't do other things like cook.

How about a cold camp as a soulbound item but you can pack a campfire and can cook / get boosted reserves while you sleep.
If they were soulbound it would be something everyone would have and therefore just an unnecessary system layered on top of all the other systems.

It would be best if they just do away with the need for camps altogether, simply make the logout timer 2 minutes during which you can watch your character but not move etc. but can cancel logout and defend yourself if necessary.

Any system that leaves your character defenseless in game after you log out is a BIG step away from a skill based game.
 

Albano Dravae

New member
May 31, 2021
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Yeah i get your point, but the game isn't done yet. They took away infinite weight on horse before adding bags, certain skill books are in the game but their related skills aren't in yet. From their track record so far there is no reason to think that it will not come in soon. Camps are not ready yet, but people still log out in combat. Was this the best fix for the moment, probably not? But will it get fixed? Yes I'm 100% sure.
We can also discuss the how" mechanics are added why not, regardless the stage of the game and despite that ever lasting excuse that the game is in alpha i consider that the teardrop adding of content is counterproductive, and its a vice SV has had since the early days of MO1.

Why is it counterproductive?

lets take for example the horse weight limitation. Probably like 3 weeks or more before pet bags got added into the game, horses carry weight got nerfed and you couldn't log off your pet with your character, meaning that if a player wanted to explore or gather would be limited by this. So by adding a part of the mechanics spaced by weeks it forced players to either not go outside of towns or to have very long ass trips.

That small change that forced players into a negative experience of the game, could have been prevented by just delaying that particular change till the actual horse bags or pet logout system was added weeks after.

What was the hurry? Did they expect some kind of feedback? I doubt it, i believe it was only because the "development cuota" they promise the player base.

Then i think its a conceptual mistake for development to partially add content that "will eventually" be finished, and by definition thats placeholder content.

Same with logout mechanics, adding tiny parts of content that can't be properly analized because testers are kept in the dark. How could anyone give feedback about something thats partially made and you don't even know how is it going to be when its finished. And thats just cientific method of analysis.

Why bother adding a tiny piece of something that only annoys testers.

What i can see here in players opinions and nobody actually addresses it, is that the teardrop adding of content is the most dumbass way to approach development and im amazed they don't have a production role to tell them this.
 
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Arfy

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Nov 28, 2020
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I have been putting some thought into this if i understand correctly there are 2 basic issues that they are trying to address here
1 Combat logging . surely for this the best fix would be a cooldown after the last time you were hit/dmg'd eg cant log for 5 min after last time dmg'd .
2 logout camping spawns hotspots ect to gather resources or kill specific mobs . The fix would be surely the same as the dungeons if you log in that designated area (area could be identified the same as safe zones in towns ect but as declared no log zone ) you are penalized the same as if you logged in a dungeon .

The declared area would be a reasonable size around the particular spawn .
 

ZVNII

Member
Jun 17, 2021
48
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I have been putting some thought into this if i understand correctly there are 2 basic issues that they are trying to address here
1 Combat logging . surely for this the best fix would be a cooldown after the last time you were hit/dmg'd eg cant log for 5 min after last time dmg'd .
2 logout camping spawns hotspots ect to gather resources or kill specific mobs . The fix would be surely the same as the dungeons if you log in that designated area (area could be identified the same as safe zones in towns ect but as declared no log zone ) you are penalized the same as if you logged in a dungeon .

The declared area would be a reasonable size around the particular spawn .
I think that if the log out timer was extended it would be fine for "pre combat logging". In MO1 it was 40 seconds which often was enough, make it 2 mins or even 5 mins (maybe if taken DMG recently) in some places of the map. No need for staying in game 30 mins after you log out. I really like the idea of knowing that I am safe after i have logged out. One could still have teh campfire system that would make it "instant". As for teh 3 hours, i believe that is just place holder and eventually only be for teh "no log out" areas.

That being said, lets see how it all feels with the system fully implement before we take rash conclusions.

Then i think its a conceptual mistake for development to partially add content that "will eventually" be finished, and by definition thats placeholder content.
I think you speak for teh majority of teh place base with this. I am sure SV knows that the population after a patch has not been this low in a while. Can't be a good sign when their buggy mess right after the stress test was more enjoyable compared to the current stat of the game. I think a problem we are experiencing is that the team is busy "fixing" stuff instead of adding stuff. Which is understandable given their size and the speed time line they have set themselves. I just hope it's not a money problem.
 

Solairerection

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May 28, 2020
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I think it would be better with a no log-out zone in dungeons/keeps/POI's and if you manage to log out anyway you will be ported out, along with a 5 minute timer. As mentioned problem has always been players camping areas aswell as avoiding combat by logging.

If they want to keep players online for immersion, or whatever, they should not half-measure it with a 30 min timer but instead have players logged in at all time, with only areas of relative safeties being towns, inn's and player housing. If they really want to be hardcore there is no point in pussying out with half-assed measures, better to go all in.