I'm done w/ testing, but I have to reiterate:

The Rep System Should Be Disabled Upon Release Until It Can Be "FULLY IMPLEMENTED"


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Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
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I cannot stress enough, and it is not hyperbole, that the rep system, as implemented with parcel running, is OBJECTIVELY AWFUL. I cannot wrap my mind around it. I originally planned to type out an impression/suggestion thread, but this trumps all of that.

I implore SV to LOCK THE REP SYSTEM! DELETE IT! Upon release until it can be implemented in a more thorough way. The only people who like this system, I'd imagine, are the ones who believe it's keeping them from being killed. Upon release, they will be getting killed anyway. It's going to rudely open everyone's eyes to the flaws and how little the system matters to most players who want to PK/have a decent set up. That's why I say just lock it... you can say, we have a reputation system in the works that we were testing during beta and will roll it out once we ironed the kinks. Go back to MC's and maybe find a way to give people double MC or something if they PK you in town or kill your horse. Five MC is not a lot of leeway and you have to bleed them out. Running parcels is just bad for 'A SANDBOX,' it's a feature I could not have thought up in my wildest dreams. Like... how does running parcels relate to reputation? Other than making people work to grief. People are OK with grief as long as people work for it? Even Murder count has a limit, but you can run parcels for 10 hours and grief hard, repeat, haha.

Parcel quests IMO have NO PLACE in a sandbox. It's the first introduction of a theme park element to MO and I EXTREMELY DISLIKE IT! The idea of a rep system could be good, though, but actually come up with something that's going to work, please.
 

Fisher(Sath)

Active member
Apr 6, 2021
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I disagree completely with the idea that the parcels are bad for the game. The issue however is with a core part of the murder count system in that you can be reported for murder regardless of the kill's location. They need to change the report system so that it can only be used if you die within the influence areas of a nation (guarded areas and near them). If this is done Parcels become a target that players can actively hunt down to steal and turn in for themselves without the risk of ruining their rep and being rewarded for participating in pvp.

Change the reward values a bit and players will still run parcels even knowing that people will hunt them. This is basically the same idea as in Ashes of Creation with their caravan pvp system.

It was my understanding that the goal was to choose what reputations you liked/disliked and then you would be a good Christian boy in the places that you liked and do whatever you want in places you disliked. This allows people to pick reasonably safe homelands and hunting grounds alike.

Edit: I will however agree that the current reputation system is going to do more harm than good and should be postponed until further notice.
 

Lurifax

New member
Dec 6, 2021
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I cannot stress enough, and it is not hyperbole, that the rep system, as implemented with parcel running, is OBJECTIVELY AWFUL. I cannot wrap my mind around it. I originally planned to type out an impression/suggestion thread, but this trumps all of that.

I implore SV to LOCK THE REP SYSTEM! DELETE IT! Upon release until it can be implemented in a more thorough way. The only people who like this system, I'd imagine, are the ones who believe it's keeping them from being killed. Upon release, they will be getting killed anyway. It's going to rudely open everyone's eyes to the flaws and how little the system matters to most players who want to PK/have a decent set up. That's why I say just lock it... you can say, we have a reputation system in the works that we were testing during beta and will roll it out once we ironed the kinks. Go back to MC's and maybe find a way to give people double MC or something if they PK you in town or kill your horse. Five MC is not a lot of leeway and you have to bleed them out. Running parcels is just bad for 'A SANDBOX,' it's a feature I could not have thought up in my wildest dreams. Like... how does running parcels relate to reputation? Other than making people work to grief. People are OK with grief as long as people work for it? Even Murder count has a limit, but you can run parcels for 10 hours and grief hard, repeat, haha.

Parcel quests IMO have NO PLACE in a sandbox. It's the first introduction of a theme park element to MO and I EXTREMELY DISLIKE IT! The idea of a rep system could be good, though, but actually come up with something that's going to work, please.
Parcel quests are bad/boring but removing the system will mean that all newbies will get farmed until the quit and the game wont be able to grow.
 

Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
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There's no way they're going to disable their primary system that determines whether or not guards let you enter protected areas, although, the feeling about the parcel system in of itself being awful is valid. It's another game system that isn't fully complete yet, but at least we know there are planned additional (and hopefully more engaging) ways to gain rep back.
 

Nefnate

Well-known member
Jun 23, 2021
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I disagree completely with the idea that the parcels are bad for the game. The issue however is with a core part of the murder count system in that you can be reported for murder regardless of the kill's location. They need to change the report system so that it can only be used if you die within the influence areas of a nation (guarded areas and near them). If this is done Parcels become a target that players can actively hunt down to steal and turn in for themselves without the risk of ruining their rep and being rewarded for participating in pvp.

Change the reward values a bit and players will still run parcels even knowing that people will hunt them. This is basically the same idea as in Ashes of Creation with their caravan pvp system.

It was my understanding that the goal was to choose what reputations you liked/disliked and then you would be a good Christian boy in the places that you liked and do whatever you want in places you disliked. This allows people to pick reasonably safe homelands and hunting grounds alike.

Edit: I will however agree that the current reputation system is going to do more harm than good and should be postponed until further notice.
I don't know if this is a semantic error or not:

You say the issue is being able to report for murder no matter where you are. I think the ability to report for murder(count) should apply to everywhere. I think the ability to damage rep should be exactly how you described.

This way there is one tracking of 'karma' cross map, and the Rep system controls guard aggro and town access within marked borders specifically.
 
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Fisher(Sath)

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Apr 6, 2021
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I don't know if this is a semantic error or not:

You say the issue is being able to report for murder no matter where you are. I think the ability to report for murder(count) should apply to everywhere. I think the ability to damage rep should be exactly how you described.

This way there is one tracking of 'karma' cross map, and the Rep system controls guard aggro and town access within marked borders specifically.
Perhaps im not quite understanding how the murder count system works, are you not flagged as a red player after getting 5 murder counts making all guards hostile to you? Or does the reputation system actually let you into towns that you have good rep in regardless of your murder counts?
 

Nefnate

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Jun 23, 2021
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Perhaps im not quite understanding how the murder count system works, are you not flagged as a red player after getting 5 murder counts making all guards hostile to you? Or does the reputation system actually let you into towns that you have good rep in regardless of your murder counts?
The latter! Being "red" just means others can attack you without it being murder now.
 
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Archiel

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Apr 5, 2021
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The parcel system is something that will help draw people out of towns although I believe you should have to buy the parcel and then get more reward on the other end with the chance that someone can kill you and cash it in for the full reward.
No rep system will create the worst environment for a release I could think of, all noobs farmed with no repercussions? Did you even think about this?
 
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Fisher(Sath)

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The latter! Being "red" just means others can attack you without it being murder now.
thank you for the clarification. It honestly slipped my mind or at least I thought that was a bug rather than an intended feature. If you have good reputation will guards defend you even if you are red?
 
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Nefnate

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Jun 23, 2021
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thank you for the clarification. It honestly slipped my mind or at least I thought that was a bug rather than an intended feature. If you have good reputation will guards defend you even if you are red?
I am not sure, honestly. Need a red player to pitch in :p
 

For Sure

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Jun 25, 2021
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Don't be a bad boy? All of these people used to tell me go play mordhau if you want nonstop pvp. If you can't travel to another new city of a new rep to pvp there's something terribly wrong with you. Why do you people insist on having perks of a blue player, but pvp like a red one? Move to kran? Move to gk? Try not living in a blue city and pretending to be a red player. It's so conflicting.
 
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Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Don't be a bad boy? All of these people used to tell me go play mordhau if you want nonstop pvp. If you can't travel to another new city of a new rep to pvp there's something terribly wrong with you. Why do you people insist on having perks of a blue player, but pvp like a red one? Move to kran? Move to gk? Try not living in a blue city and pretending to be a red player. It's so conflicting.
haha, so you're getting back at them thru this post?

There are basically 2 zones you can play in and killing isn't the only way to lower rep. The problem is it is 5 non-resetting instances, if you take out parcels. Parcels... are pretty wack. Like you're not taking a stack of sab powder and moving it to a place w/ o sab and putting it on broker, which would actually be a rep-increasing 'parcel,' it's a closed loop. Complete dump npc2npc time sink system.

I still think that it's not true new players are going to get farmed out any harder than they would otherwise. I mean, we will see, but this is more like a warning. I think this system is going to really upset a lot of players, esp at x1 when they have to reroll haha.

I have no issue with a rep system. I have an issue with running parcels. I GOT REP already. The system is so far reaching yet underbaked it's going to majorly affect the whole game, MORE THAN ANY OTHER SYSTEM, and it's not gonna take long for this to become apparent. It's not implemented anywhere near where the plans are, it's basically a place holder system that is a core game mechanic. That's crazy. I say let people know it's being worked on, if new player killing becomes overly toxic, let GMs step in, but I am pretty sure IT WON'T. I am, however, pretty sure this system is going to heavily affect the game, and my PoV was just... why put that on players when it's not properly implemented yet, as spoken by everyone.

Edit: oh so red is local grey? hmm. I still think low rep should make you local grey outside of town in those zones instead of KoS by guards. Only when your rep becomes massively damaged should you be KoS and it should be PER CITY not per tribe cuz afaik there are only two tribes or w/e that even have guards and that's all the blue cities.

Edit 2. Red being local grey is muah tho. The game needs more local grey. Pvpers should be able to pvp but be pvp'd.
 
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Rorry

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May 30, 2020
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Red does not equal local grey, and there is no visual indicator that someone is red (has more than 5 murder counts.) The only effects of being red are that you cannot resurrect in town or give murder counts.
 

Vulpin

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Nov 29, 2021
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thank you for the clarification. It honestly slipped my mind or at least I thought that was a bug rather than an intended feature. If you have good reputation will guards defend you even if you are red?
I believe the answer is yes, you still receive the criminal debuff if you attack red players, thus guards attack you. The only difference is red players can't report people who killed them.
 
May 29, 2020
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I cannot stress enough, and it is not hyperbole, that the rep system, as implemented with parcel running, is OBJECTIVELY AWFUL. I cannot wrap my mind around it. I originally planned to type out an impression/suggestion thread, but this trumps all of that.
Agreed, but I'm going to vote "other" here due to...
I implore SV to LOCK THE REP SYSTEM! DELETE IT! Upon release until it can be implemented in a more thorough way.
Which brings us to the problem: There is no way to remove the reputation system without replacing it with a different system entirely, which is probably logistically infeasible with the remaining time between now and launch. Small improvements with big impacts could certainly be made, however.
 

Emdash

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Sep 22, 2021
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Agreed, but I'm going to vote "other" here due to...

Which brings us to the problem: There is no way to remove the reputation system without replacing it with a different system entirely, which is probably logistically infeasible with the remaining time between now and launch. Small improvements with big impacts could certainly be made, however.
yea no doubt, I have been educated. I did not know the MC system was removed, like being red or w/e. I was assuming it was still in and rep was on top of that. I would say they could pretty easily flip it back to raw MC = red tho, don't you think?

@Eldrath "murder" "innocents" mean different things in reality than they do in MO. Could say Murder (since it's murder count) BLUE FLAGS, but I still strongly contest that blue flag = innocent. Obviously, I'd like a system where people are punished for killing people who are upstanding citizens. THIS AIN'T REALLY IT, imo, but we all view things differently.

What say you about my proposed hypothetical that big keep owning guild has a large PKing force and their blues are among you, farming, extracting etc... but you can't do anything to them because of the rep system? Notice most of the people who PK who voted 'no' to this are set up well enough to not have to worry, they got 15/20 guys on their back, or like Dred maybe 50++.
 
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Eldrath

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Jun 18, 2020
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the Jungle. Meditating on things to come.
yea no doubt, I have been educated. I did not know the MC system was removed, like being red or w/e. I was assuming it was still in and rep was on top of that. I would say they could pretty easily flip it back to raw MC = red tho, don't you think?

@Eldrath "murder" "innocents" mean different things in reality than they do in MO. Could say Murder (since it's murder count) BLUE FLAGS, but I still strongly contest that blue flag = innocent. Obviously, I'd like a system where people are punished for killing people who are upstanding citizens. THIS AIN'T REALLY IT, imo, but we all view things differently.

What say you about my proposed hypothetical that big keep owning guild has a large PKing force and their blues are among you, farming, extracting etc... but you can't do anything to them because of the rep system? Notice most of the people who PK who voted 'no' to this are set up well enough to not have to worry, they got 15/20 guys on their back, or like Dred maybe 50++.
Oh, I don´t think there is a way to tell good and bad from each other throught the eyes of game system when there are real people involved.

Only those who have been cleansed of their false ideals can see truth and repent.

While Henrik has been cleansed multiple times he has not learned.
 

Tashka

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Dec 4, 2021
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Lol the whole system isn't just bad, it's actually pointless. Upon release i'll just make a second character and ignore the whole damned thing. I hate being locked out of content for PvP. It's like an uninteded P2W element. Just buy a second account and circumvent the bad stuff.

I'd much prefer having a stat loss. I'd even go for it.