For the future, tone down white bear spawns.

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Whitebears spawn like

Dont see SV getting rid of them but at least tone down the spawn. Almost everyone had a whitebear today in fab.
Its so easy to get and people have stables of them. Just AFK dummy level them safe in town too.

For something so OP there are not many downsides or cost to having one. You dont sacrifice much for upkeep either.

Suggestions for White bear nerfs while Im here.
lower damage to 25s but have AOE swipes. Maybe have a 30 damage middle attack. When they get armor make it slow down the attack speed. Also just a little bit slower movement speed. The attacks animation need a little more work to be fair to parry.

Whitebear cave is good for PvP tho.
 

Woody

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Apr 4, 2021
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I'd like to see the white bear cave spawn increased to something silly like 6-9 hours and then additional spawns of around the same time on the other side of the mountain - hylspia way. Gives more reason to check each spawn and travel for them if you want to tame one.
 
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Dracu

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I dont really understand the need for strong pets in general. I would like to hear the reasoning for strong pets that require no skill input from players in a hardcore „skillbased“ pvp game.
 
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Draug

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I dont really understand the need for strong pets in general. I would like to hear the reasoning for strong pets that require no skill input from players in a hardcore „skillbased“ pvp game.
People really need to stop using the word hardcore; you don't lose any character progression upon death, only some items. Also, pets allows people another kind of playstyle, where much of the work is done before the fight, not during it.
 
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barcode

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its not the quantity that makes them overpowered, i would worry less about the spawn rates and more about the stats/abilities

-barcode
 
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Dracu

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People really need to stop using the word hardcore; you don't lose any character progression upon death, only some items. Also, pets allows people another kind of playstyle, where much of the work is done before the fight, not during it.
tell that to SV ;)

mostHardcore.png
 

PoisonArrows

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Playing as a Mounted Archer solves all your problems. Playing as a Foot Fighter you will never beat a Tamer. Adding increased White Bear Spawn time does nothing. People will just wait it out, get another one stable it, and keep doing it until they have a full stable.

White Bears are not Breedable, Brown Bears are. So on Release any Tamer Worth their salt is going for Brown Not White Bears, so that solves that problem. Funny enough our Brown Bears will be stronger then the Current White once we breed them. And Minotaur is more of a Valued pet as it has Charge and Knock Down, Dominated Pets like the Minotaur are naturally stronger then tamed ones as well, being on Pare with Insect Death Knights for Combat. Shore Prowler is better too as it's basically a White Bear for damage but with better defenses. Once again Solution, don't intend to fight a tamer as a foot fighter. Foot Fighter is by design, meant to be balanced around other foot fighters. Foot Fighters have a lot going for them, a lot of weapon and armor choices, that scale based on type of weapon/armor chosen for the foot fighter. And clades that buff them up. As well as only needing to spend 100 primary points to obtain ranged combat. But 1 class can't beat all other classes. The Game was never meant to be 1 class as the only played class.

Even in Mo1 days Tamers/dominators were often the bane of everyone's hate. But Mounted Archers always beat them. So they had their own balance Demon Bats/Spider Queen and Lizards as ranged attackers to try to fight Mounted Archers. But even then the Tamer loses to Mounted Archer. Because those pets have less Hp then the Tank pets the bears, and die twice as easy to ranged attacks. Then we have multi pets Crocodiles/Bats/Terror Birds/Cougars where we could have 3 of each with maxed lores and herding skills.


If I do the math you could nerf a Max Level White Bears Hp and literally divide it's hp by 3, and still have more then 300hp on that lv125 White Bear. Obviously the devs will never take away 600Hp from a White Bear, but even if they did this should show you that Tamers are not meant to be balanced around Foot Fighters.

Here's the secret sauce: A Terror Bird in Mo1 was the only Pet capable of catching a player on a Mount. Tamers pets are balanced around Move speed because Mounted Archers are what counters them. And Because The Developers don't want Tamers to be World Of WarCraft Hunters where in Warcraft Pets are useless and Weak. In Mortal Pets are a Second Play Style, a literal Second Class called a Beast Master. As Long as they don't make a pet faster then a Horse you have nothing to fear, because there will always be Mounted Archers to counter them. But Tamers Counter Foot Fighters. Dex Fighters/Foot Archers Counter Mages, Mounted Mages Beat Foot Fighters, Mounted Archers Beat Foot Archers and any mages, Mounted Warriors Beat Foot Fighters, Tamers, and Foot Mages. And Hybrids are basically a Build that can beat a Foot Fighter Or Lose to a Foot Fighter depending on skill.

In essence Foot Fighters are the weakest Class to start out with. Where you guys start to really shine is when you have end game armor and weapons. But Anything less then Ogh,Cronite,Tungsteel and you guys get clapped by other classes. Foot Fighters can't defeat any class with a mount or pet.
 

Dracu

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I am, and am arguing that it's mainly a marketing gimmick. This is a group oriented MMO yes, but you keep your character when you die, so it's not hardcore in the sense that other games use it - which normally means permadeath.
thats like your personal interpretation not really the "definition" for hardcore lol. Like you said gimmicky word.
So permadeath == hardcore.... yes... no... wouldnt agree that hardcore and permadeath share the same definition... maybe other games associate it with that and you played those other games so you have a different bias towards that word and what it means....to you... fine.

But others may have a different interpretation for such a broad term based of different experiences and then calling it "misused" because you know it in a different context is a bit of an entitled stretch isnt it. Some would consider Dark Souls a hardcore game, due to the challenging nature. Messurement beeing the difficulty and learning curve etc. All perspective.

When actually looking up this term you get quite a few different interpretations what it means... soo yeah... no real consens... just entitled opinions.

I do agree its a very gimicky word indeed, defenitley marketing ploy. But that hardcore requires permadeath to be called hardcore i do not agree with. Thats a bit to much "personal opinion" for me.
 
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Kelzyr

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In essence Foot Fighters are the weakest Class to start out with. Where you guys start to really shine is when you have end game armor and weapons. But Anything less then Ogh,Cronite,Tungsteel and you guys get clapped by other classes. Foot Fighters can't defeat any class with a mount or pet.
This statement is so true, which is why 90% of the complaints on the forums are asking for nerfs to these other classes you talk about so there is some balance. Nothing should be so weak that you have to get end game armor and weapons before you can compete.
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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People really need to stop using the word hardcore; you don't lose any character progression upon death, only some items. Also, pets allows people another kind of playstyle, where much of the work is done before the fight, not during it.
Hardcore has to do with high skill based games. I dont see loss especially stat loss as pro or anti hardcore.

White bears get armor just like footfighters. Footfighters can still get whitebears.

To get tung or steel takes way far longer and more effort then white bears.

Whitebears can be good in large group pvp. The issue is in small scale and 1v1 its so broken OP.
 

Serverus

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I dont really understand the need for strong pets in general. I would like to hear the reasoning for strong pets that require no skill input from players in a hardcore „skillbased“ pvp game.
Its a class called Beast Master that is why strong pets are needed. Also not everyone has the good EU ping. Aussies and Americans suffer from lag when fighting melee so this is why magic and beast mastery is so viable. You kids always trying to take away our fun. Let their be other playstyles please and don't try to nerf everything that is not a 123 str Thursar.
 
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Serverus

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May 28, 2020
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Playing as a Mounted Archer solves all your problems. Playing as a Foot Fighter you will never beat a Tamer. Adding increased White Bear Spawn time does nothing. People will just wait it out, get another one stable it, and keep doing it until they have a full stable.

White Bears are not Breedable, Brown Bears are. So on Release any Tamer Worth their salt is going for Brown Not White Bears, so that solves that problem. Funny enough our Brown Bears will be stronger then the Current White once we breed them. And Minotaur is more of a Valued pet as it has Charge and Knock Down, Dominated Pets like the Minotaur are naturally stronger then tamed ones as well, being on Pare with Insect Death Knights for Combat. Shore Prowler is better too as it's basically a White Bear for damage but with better defenses. Once again Solution, don't intend to fight a tamer as a foot fighter. Foot Fighter is by design, meant to be balanced around other foot fighters. Foot Fighters have a lot going for them, a lot of weapon and armor choices, that scale based on type of weapon/armor chosen for the foot fighter. And clades that buff them up. As well as only needing to spend 100 primary points to obtain ranged combat. But 1 class can't beat all other classes. The Game was never meant to be 1 class as the only played class.

Even in Mo1 days Tamers/dominators were often the bane of everyone's hate. But Mounted Archers always beat them. So they had their own balance Demon Bats/Spider Queen and Lizards as ranged attackers to try to fight Mounted Archers. But even then the Tamer loses to Mounted Archer. Because those pets have less Hp then the Tank pets the bears, and die twice as easy to ranged attacks. Then we have multi pets Crocodiles/Bats/Terror Birds/Cougars where we could have 3 of each with maxed lores and herding skills.


If I do the math you could nerf a Max Level White Bears Hp and literally divide it's hp by 3, and still have more then 300hp on that lv125 White Bear. Obviously the devs will never take away 600Hp from a White Bear, but even if they did this should show you that Tamers are not meant to be balanced around Foot Fighters.

Here's the secret sauce: A Terror Bird in Mo1 was the only Pet capable of catching a player on a Mount. Tamers pets are balanced around Move speed because Mounted Archers are what counters them. And Because The Developers don't want Tamers to be World Of WarCraft Hunters where in Warcraft Pets are useless and Weak. In Mortal Pets are a Second Play Style, a literal Second Class called a Beast Master. As Long as they don't make a pet faster then a Horse you have nothing to fear, because there will always be Mounted Archers to counter them. But Tamers Counter Foot Fighters. Dex Fighters/Foot Archers Counter Mages, Mounted Mages Beat Foot Fighters, Mounted Archers Beat Foot Archers and any mages, Mounted Warriors Beat Foot Fighters, Tamers, and Foot Mages. And Hybrids are basically a Build that can beat a Foot Fighter Or Lose to a Foot Fighter depending on skill.

In essence Foot Fighters are the weakest Class to start out with. Where you guys start to really shine is when you have end game armor and weapons. But Anything less then Ogh,Cronite,Tungsteel and you guys get clapped by other classes. Foot Fighters can't defeat any class with a mount or pet.
This guy gets it. Thank you for your objective post.
 

Dracu

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Jul 13, 2020
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Its a class called Beastmaster that is why strong pets are needed. Also not everyone has the good EU ping. Aussies and Americans suffer from lag when fighting melee so this is why magic and beast mastery is so viable. You kids always trying to take away our fun. Let their be other playstyles please and don't try to nerf everything that is not a 123 str Thursar.
Dude take a chill pill xD Nobody gonna steal your toy so you can feel all powerfull in a video game.

Balance is an annoying topic in general, mortal online 2 has serious balance issues on so many levels.
It needs balance at all corners, this includes but not limits to pets... a good mix where all playstyles are viable is needed. Just not one where less "skill" can be more rewarding then playstyles that require "more skill".

How about adding skillfull play to beastmasters? Like you know actually add more commanding to pets, actually adding more gameplay then "all pets attack X" so it becomes a more "active" playstyle? And the better you do... the better the result. Reward skillfull play.
 

Serverus

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Dude take a chill pill xD Nobody gonna steal your toy so you can feel all powerfull in a video game.

Balance is an annoying topic in general, mortal online 2 has serious balance issues on so many levels.
It needs balance at all corners, this includes but not limits to pets... a good mix where all playstyles are viable is needed. Just not one where less "skill" can be more rewarding then playstyles that require "more skill".

How about adding skillfull play to beastmasters? Like you know actually add more commanding to pets, actually adding more gameplay then "all pets attack X" so it becomes a more "active" playstyle? And the better you do... the better the result. Reward skillfull play.
There is a skill for that its called Beast Mastery where you can command different attacks. But that lore is not implemented yet. This is just the beta. You need to relax and let the game live a bit. Instead of crying nerf and imbalance because you cant 1v1 everything in your molarium armor lol.
 

Dracu

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Jul 13, 2020
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There is a skill for that its called Beast Mastery where you can command different attacks. But that lore is not implemented yet. This is just the beta. You need to relax and let the game live a bit. Instead of crying nerf and imbalance because you cant 1v1 everything in your molarium armor lol.
no thats just your "interpretation" xD Or do you have a source for that claim.
 

Kelzyr

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Sep 22, 2020
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Beast mastery (assuming they do what was done in mo1) will just make pets even stronger, not only by increasing damage done, but also giving them unique abilities on top of their current "attack x" command.

I think what Dracu is suggesting is that you change "attack x" to be less send and forget (obviously you don't completely forget) and be more like 'follow x' (make them path towards target), 'left/right/top/thrust attack x', 'block', etc. so the person controlling the pet has to do more to gain the benefit of an extra body at your disposal.
 
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Darran

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May 28, 2020
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I would start by making pet combat skill-based. You shouldn't be extremely powerful in combat because you spent a few hours afk training a pet and know how to press "attack"
 
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barcode

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Jun 2, 2020
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I think what Dracu is suggesting is that you change "attack x" to be less send and forget (obviously you don't completely forget) and be more like 'follow x' (make them path towards target), 'left/right/top/thrust attack x', 'block', etc. so the person controlling the pet has to do more to gain the benefit of an extra body at your disposal.
i dunno that pets should have that level of micro management but clearly having 'difficult' pve creatures be tamable and retrain all their hp/damage is totally insane.

wow had a much more reasonable version of taming where all pets of a certain level would do roughly the same dps, which was lower than other players but could be quite useful to interrupt casters and not so low as to be completely ignorable. The important decision there was the type of pet to get as they all had certain special abilities. Pigs had a charge, birds a silence, wolves a dps buff, etc. it kept pets from being ridiculously op and the various abilities meant there wasnt really one pet to rule them all, you'd have good reasons to pick any given pet.

I'm not saying MO should follow exactly wow's forumula here, but clearly allowing a pet to retain all the damage/hp/abilities they had as a difficult PVE foe and let players command them as a fire-and-forget i-win button for pvp is just silly.

-barcode