End the Spins

Kokolo

Member
May 3, 2021
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Star Citizen uses a g-force system that makes you black out if you turn to fast.

I suggest adding a mechanic that makes you dizzy/fogs your screen/makes your vision cloudy if you turn too fast.
I like these types of suggestions. I wouldn't limit player mobility or implement a turn cap. Applying a debuff after the move seems fair. There is still a fighting chance that way if you miss as a spinner, or if someone runs past you and you are unable to turn.

You land a spinning hit and then it becomes harder to parry, or you deal less damage, or you get knocked down easily, etc. You go for a finisher and land it then, or get parried and your vision is blurry and your opponent kills you. I think it would make the game more challenging and fun and also make spinning attacks a calculated risk to perform.
 

Shmerrick

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2021
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Please tell me a good pvper who is using macros. Pref with video too.

It's a disadvantage.
All of legion and koto. I don't record and I'm not your bitch. People have been using combat macros in MO since launch. You have your head in the clouds if you think people don't use them.
 

Lasciel

Member
Oct 3, 2020
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People who think anyone uses macros for 360s and spins just lack understanding of what's possible at higher level gameplay. No pro or high tier player has ever macro'd mouse spins because it ultimately provides a static and linear movement that reduces your ability to react on the fly, which is incredibly important in every melee game.

Just more people who don't understand the mechanics getting molly whopped by players better than them and taking to the forums instead of digging deep and figuring out the system. Stop trying to simplify mechanics because you don't understand them. Nobody macro'd spins in Mount and Blade, no one did it in Mordhau, no one did it in Chivalry, and no one does it in this game. Nobody who is successful macros feints, and no one who is successful macros single fire weapons in FPS games.


Skill issue.
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
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I’m glad the era of the “nerf beyblades” players is over and there are some better players with common sense around now.

took you long enough. We’re lucky the game is still playable.
 

Lasciel

Member
Oct 3, 2020
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I’m glad the era of the “nerf beyblades” players is over and there are some better players with common sense around now.

took you long enough. We’re lucky the game is still playable.
I just think it's funny that people think the beyblading in this game is extreme. It's pretty accessible at a beginner level and just basic foundations of defense can make even a good player struggle to kill you in a reasonable time. Not to mention much of this doesn't even happen in group fights, and trying to spin takes your focus off of much needed awareness, so typically any technique used to bypass defenses just risks your positioning. Without the current spins, the game would literally just consist of a tit for tat, with fights lasting until either your RMB key breaks or one of you falls asleep.
 
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Shmerrick

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2021
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I’m glad the era of the “nerf beyblades” players is over and there are some better players with common sense around now.

took you long enough. We’re lucky the game is still playable.
I've made a list of how combat can be improved and you guys keep screaming about how boring, etc. game play will be without ridiculous spins. There are methods is which melee can be improved but you guys want to keep capitalizing on cheese spins, server desynchronization, and macro attacks. If you guys don't have an issue with melee being more skill based then you would strive to find a better method of melee combat, advocate for a NA server, and encourage SV to ban macros and other game play automation. Circular reasoning on why spins should stay is based on delusion.

 

Lasciel

Member
Oct 3, 2020
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I've made a list of how combat can be improved and you guys keep screaming about how boring, etc. game play will be without ridiculous spins. There are methods is which melee can be improved but you guys want to keep capitalizing on cheese spins, server desynchronization, and macro attacks. If you guys don't have an issue with melee being more skill based then you would strive to find a better method of melee combat, advocate for a NA server, and encourage SV to ban macros and other game play automation. Circular reasoning on why spins should stay is based on delusion.

Sure, it would be nice to have more counters to defensive gameplay other than stupid spins, because I don't think anyone is really arguing that they look good or provide health for the game, but the alternatives aren't either. None of your suggestions culminate in this being more skillful, it just pushes the game towards a build-countering system with even more focus on defensive techniques. Lowering the block radius was the best suggestion you had. NA server would also be amazing but considering the size of this game and likelihood of mass success, cutting the population like this would be fruitless in the long run.

Is breaking animations a good game design for combat in order to bypass defense?

No, it's not. But it's what we have currently and the good alternatives have already been discussed and denied. People complained like hell when combat speed was increased, they complained about what we have now. There's a large player base in this community that refuses to actually figure out the current system and instead just tries to pander to what they think would make themselves more competent. You're not advocating better combat, you're advocating changing it into a more linear and less complex system that creates an even lower skill floor that advocates build countering instead of utilizing mechanics themselves to overcome your opponent.

Your reasoning for your improvements aren't based on improving the game, they're based on improving your demographic.
 

Kokolo

Member
May 3, 2021
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I've made a list of how combat can be improved and you guys keep screaming about how boring, etc. game play will be without ridiculous spins. There are methods is which melee can be improved but you guys want to keep capitalizing on cheese spins, server desynchronization, and macro attacks. If you guys don't have an issue with melee being more skill based then you would strive to find a better method of melee combat, advocate for a NA server, and encourage SV to ban macros and other game play automation. Circular reasoning on why spins should stay is based on delusion.

I think anything that removes a players ability to move or fight is a bad suggestion. They had turn caps in Alpha and it was abused in duels and in group fights especially. A shield bash defense break sounds interesting to me. A debuff is the something I could see working with a possibility to spice up combat. Something to make the fights slightly more risky and aggresive, but without limiting a players combat freedom.
 
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Najwalaylah

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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37.76655478735988, -122.48572468757628
preconceived notions of realism
I laughed. Yes. Reality prejudices our notions of realism.
----
<redacted> @bbihah , @Rhias , @Kameyo & @EZgold made comments or parts of comments that seemed useful. Especially Bbihah's "what id prefer is that at least they make turning quickly be processed differently(visually) for other people", because spinning in combat with mêlée weapons can just look silly. The more, the sillier; so, change how it looks. (You know how they say, "If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid"?) But it should not be the only advanced player skill in combat, either.

Overall, player skill should matter, but not so extremely much that more than 4/5ths of players who indulge in serious or 'professional' combat in-game end up being in the bottom fifth of the class in combat ability. SV might have to say "We will be geared to the slightly above-average rather than the exceptional." The exceptional need just enough ways to excel not to get bored.
 

bbihah

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2020
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Precisely.

Important to know though is if they just change how its visually processed they are just back to square 1 anyway. So its important to make sure MORE is done.

If they end up "taking away" spinning around like a ballerina then they clearly have to EVOLVE THE COMBAT a bit with more depth to it. Isn't that what i've been saying for like what now? 15 months? Otherwise we are stuck in this pretty basic EZ block vs Ballerina system we have now.

Just taking the first sign of being able to use shifty looking game mechanics to trump people who dont know about said shifty looking game mechanics and calling it a day because its convenient for you does not mean the combat system is better for it. Because clearly people are constantly trying to shift the focus away from the fact that the combat system needs more in it and trying to apologize for crappy game mechanics so that SV can feel they have an out NOT TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. It doesn't help making the combat a better and/or more skill-level diverse area of the game.
 
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Tekk

Member
Apr 5, 2021
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I have a solution to your problem. Don’t duel or 1v1. Or you can learn to read the directional attack while they spin.

You won’t see people spinning in group fights.
 

cerqo

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2021
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I am up for any suggestion that actually INCREASES the skill ceiling in this game and LOWERS the skill floor. Sadly there are EXTREMELY few suggestions that ever seem to focus on these things. About 90% of the suggestions and feedback regarding melee mechanics and PvP in general, especially regarding balance, are just shit zerglings that want their 0 skill playstyles to be the most broken shit ever or trying to make the melee combat easier so they stop getting dumpstered anytime they are on foot and without a pet.

Thankfully, SV seems to be doing alright so far when it comes to the melee combat, all the other PvP balance is EXTREMELY SLOWLY moving towards the right direction in a snails pace.
 

Komodor

Member
Jul 11, 2020
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If u spin too fast - you might get dizzy. If you spin too many times you trip over the ground ;)
And enemy should have enough time to deal at least 1 free hit
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Too much RP and copium in this thread

Ill agree with the statement of SV has been doing a good job with the footfightng melee gameplay so far.
 

Darthus

Well-known member
Dec 1, 2020
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Too much RP and copium in this thread

Ill agree with the statement of SV has been doing a good job with the footfightng melee gameplay so far.
Aye, exhibit 1 is the open air tournament recently with 1v1 duels:


Happyy at the start does beat Longsword and is doing a good amount of jumping and spinning and stuff but it's long and drawn out, and Wicked in both of his fights does none of it and handidly beats both of his competitors to win.

It does seem like spins are more just an annoying way to confuse new people who get overwhelmed rather than a "god tier" fighting technique. It's annoying that it exists and is at all viable, but as long as it doesn't dominate a skilled fighter, then I don't know if it's worth SV completely revamping the system, adding things like very strict turn caps etc that have other downstream effects.

Reminds me of stuff like this:

(128) Alain Ngalani's Astonishing Spinning Kick Knockout | ONE From All Angles - YouTube

Cool to watch and might even get you a lot of wins by people who are not expecting it, but against cool and measured fighters, it's just wasted effort.
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
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Too much RP and copium in this thread

Ill agree with the statement of SV has been doing a good job with the footfightng melee gameplay so far.
It’s a little brainless needs more flicks and 360 no scopes but it coulda been worse.

I will say the turn cap has basically taken All the charm from mo 1
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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All of legion and koto. I don't record and I'm not your bitch. People have been using combat macros in MO since launch. You have your head in the clouds if you think people don't use them.
Legion has a decent player or two some for koto but most are not good. Ill like to clarify Im not lumping the legion "poor" playing players with koto zerglings. Why use a macro when a macro will just hold you back. I have dueled alot of really good players, seen lots of great players duel each other. You will almost never see someone 360. There is no point when you have better manipulations that are harder then any spin to figure out.

@Darthus People at these tourneys arent anything special most of the good player are banned. If your playing with not so special players you can get away with memeing.

Pretty funny seeing people complain about macros for spins when barely anyone is spinning
 

Dracu

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2020
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Germany
Combat should be balanced around 1vX. When 1vX works 1v1 works. Still waiting for proper 1vX melee system adjustments^^