How to fix the zerg problem in the game. (Make game less zerg friendly and more skillbased)

cerqo

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Mar 17, 2021
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I've been thinking about how SV could fix the zerg friendliness in this game and make smaller groups viable and it honestly took me a while to realize that every game where you can 1vX or 2vX etc. effectively, usually share one common thing.

Which is self-sustain. I came to the realization after rewatching some old videos where crackpipes were still useable in combat, and it just showed it so well. Any huergar could use crackpipes, but you only saw a small majority of actually good players take it to its full effect and manage to fight severely outnumbered. Stuff that would be near to impossible to pull off now.


SV has already shown that they want to make the game less zerg friendly and make smaller groups viable, and actually, let skill matter. The best way to achieve this (without increasing the movement speed or combat speed substantially) is to add ways for instant self-sustain. The easiest quick change would be to just revert crackpipes to how they were before, and make bandages work as they did in MO1. These two simple changes would instantly make the game WAY less zerg-friendly and add more room to outplay your opponents. When fighting outnumbered in the current state of the game, you will likely never get a chance to heal, popping a bandage takes forever and you are completely vulnerable to getting full to zeroed if you do it at the wrong time. Similar issue with the current crackpipe although it is somewhat faster and better than bandaging. Potions also suffer from the exact same issues.

Yes its "realistic", but we all know that realism does not equal good gameplay and this is not a simulator but a game.

In a perfect scenario, SV would add some mechanics like the old crackpipes for EVERY race and nerf zerging. You already have a GIGANTIC advantage which comes with greater numbers, but this game keeps making changes that cater and hold the hands of zergs to make their gameplay even easier. Going in the completely wrong direction. The parry change was made to help make the game less zerg friendly, but honestly, it literally makes no difference if the 10 people swinging on you do 50 damage each or 25-30.
 
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Anthius

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Aug 24, 2021
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Well, I agree with the bandage change. Its unbelievably garbage the way it is currently. Watching people get stickied while they are stuck out of combat mode is fucking painful. Nothing should keep you out of combat mode that long, especially bandaging.
 
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Jackdstripper

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Jan 8, 2021
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In an open world game numbers are always king.

how are you going to stop 50 fat mages casting on your small group? You cant. Simply put, numbers will always have the advantage, and therefore people will always try and gather the larger force.You cant get away from it. No mechanic is going to stop or deter zergs.

now, in a long drawn out war,the zerg doesnt always win. There is much more to winning a war than numbers. But numbers do make winning a war much easier.

In the ends its usually always lag and server instability that limits how large the zerg can get. When the slid show starts to happen, and nobody can hit anyone anymore people start thinking about reducing or splitting their forces.
 
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ThaBadMan

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In an open world game numbers are always king.

how are you going to stop 50 fat mages casting on your small group? You cant. Simply put, numbers will always have the advantage, and therefore people will always try and gather the larger force.You cant get away from it. No mechanic is going to stop or deter zergs.

now, in a long drawn out war,the zerg doesnt always win. There is much more to winning a war than numbers. But numbers do make winning a war much easier.

In the ends its usually always lag and server instability that limits how large the zerg can get. When the slid show starts to happen, and nobody can hit anyone anymore people start thinking about reducing or splitting their forces.
Enchanted shields that reflect magical attacks ? Still more skill based then magery.
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Yes but then you might as well then delete mages as a class.
Well you cant run while blocking with out costing lots of stam. They could just speed of the mages and then add blocks or equipment hits. Not so sure about reflecting but if a mages has to also not hit a sheild to do damage then the skill floor to be viable is raised from every person with a pulse to people who need to practice like fighters and archers have too.
 

Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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Crack pipes were a good counter to a mages damage. Oghs were busted and still are since they now have the highest stam bar along with all their defensive gifts.

If every person could pipe it would be less of a issue. I don't want to have to play ogh to fight zergs. No one really uses pots right now and doesn't feel the need to. Maybe if pots took the place of old pipes and everyone could use them.

One of the negatives about this game is the lack of solo content. If your friends are not on then you dont have much to do. Roaming by your self is a bad idea since you can run into groups. Anything that makes solo play more viable will keep more players in game and interested.
 
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ThaBadMan

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Yes but then you might as well then delete mages as a class.
Blocking cost stam and shields have durability. Higher dura cost for a successful reflect would be fine.

But how does having a counter to magic delete mages and magic ? Why is not every other playstyle then deleted now against mages since magic has no counter other then magic ?
 
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cerqo

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Mar 17, 2021
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In an open world game numbers are always king.

how are you going to stop 50 fat mages casting on your small group? You cant. Simply put, numbers will always have the advantage, and therefore people will always try and gather the larger force.You cant get away from it. No mechanic is going to stop or deter zergs.

now, in a long drawn out war,the zerg doesnt always win. There is much more to winning a war than numbers. But numbers do make winning a war much easier.

In the ends its usually always lag and server instability that limits how large the zerg can get. When the slid show starts to happen, and nobody can hit anyone anymore people start thinking about reducing or splitting their forces.

Lmao its obvious you made this whole reply without reading a single word in my original post.

Numbers with ALLWAYS be a massive advantage, but this game goes the extra mile to make zerging even more braindead easy and better than the numbers already make it.

No self sustain = zerg friendly game.
 
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MolagAmur

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Jul 15, 2020
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Yep I agree. Its kinda like the big pots we had in early MO1. A well timed 40HP pot were one of the big things that allowed you to fight outnumbered.

Its funny though because I remember a ton of people in combat alpha were asking for LESS healing in the game. And this is the result. We get the nerf to lower int healing, nerf to crackpipe (which was needed, but I would be all for every race having access to it), bandages being the way they are, etc.

We are currently playing New World, and a big reason you can fight outnumbered is because you have 4 ways of healing without the need of a healer. Its HP potion, Regen Potion, Food, and health regen on gear. Throw in a healer and you can live for a long time. Without those options...you'd last 3 seconds when outnumbered.

Like you said...without multiple ways of self sustain...its just a numbers game.
 
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Tzone

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More and better HP regen on certain foods would make the food system better and more reasons to go advanced cooking. The HP regen food you can make now is prob only a very micromanagy way to buff sitting or bandaging for health while not moving.
 

Fargus

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Oct 17, 2021
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So I think one of the best and easiest ways to fight zerg mechanics is take away the criminal action toggle. Its crazy to me seeing arrows fly through blues and hit greys behind them. Not to mention it would make it so all these people who swing wildly will actually start hitting their allies and doing more damage to themselves than the enemy. It would only help in one very specific area of the game being guardzone pvp but I believe its a good first start. Put that in, I think you'd be surprised how many of these groups would constantly friendly fire.
 
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Tzone

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So I think one of the best and easiest ways to fight zerg mechanics is take away the criminal action toggle. Its crazy to me seeing arrows fly through blues and hit greys behind them. Not to mention it would make it so all these people who swing wildly will actually start hitting their allies and doing more damage to themselves than the enemy. It would only help in one very specific area of the game being guardzone pvp but I believe its a good first start. Put that in, I think you'd be surprised how many of these groups would constantly friendly fire.
Yeah more work on this would be good. Some people admit that they leave crim actions off just to avoid friendly fire.

Maybe have it on a cool down to where after the first hit on a blue player it troggles off for a couple of minutes.
 

Tzone

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Another thing is that they can rebuff the counter reduction. I like how its only during the swing now but it used to be strong which is really should be. The only issue is if it stacks on top of ogh passive defensive gifts. As long as it isnt stacking I think its a boon for 1vX scenarios.
 

For Sure

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Jun 25, 2021
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Goat vid. The longer the fight the more it tests structure and game iq. Most people don't like the feeling of being unintelligent. Hence, nerf
 
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Jhackman

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Jun 6, 2020
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So I think one of the best and easiest ways to fight zerg mechanics is take away the criminal action toggle. Its crazy to me seeing arrows fly through blues and hit greys behind them. Not to mention it would make it so all these people who swing wildly will actually start hitting their allies and doing more damage to themselves than the enemy. It would only help in one very specific area of the game being guardzone pvp but I believe its a good first start. Put that in, I think you'd be surprised how many of these groups would constantly friendly fire.
In mo1 it would sheath your weapon if you had bb on and hit a blue. I think that would be a good penalty to have while keeping the nubs from going grey in the gy unintentionally.